Law and Order Revisited

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by McTrouble

Those are the two I can't decide between either, they really are neck and neck.

But OOTC and GI are very very very very close runners up!

Weirdest thing... I just listened to Under the Skin from front to back for the first time in awhile... and I don't know... I think it MIGHT be his best album.

wow

[McTrouble]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

Weirdest thing... I just listened to Under the Skin from front to back for the first time in awhile... and I don't know... I think it MIGHT be his best album.

wow

I swing from loving it to hating it all the time

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

Weirdest thing... I just listened to Under the Skin from front to back for the first time in awhile... and I don't know... I think it MIGHT be his best album.

wow

You should listen to it from back to front, as well, like Stevie

You make a good point though. When I listen to it, it's not with "new" ears. I always go in liking the songs I already like. If I listened to it fresh, it's been so long that I might hear things I've overlooked before.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

I love Law and Order. It, along with Out of the Cradle, are my favorite LB solo albums.

Shadows of the West and Trouble are so good! But it's the stranger songs that really strike me. A superb effort.

For the heck of it, I'll list my top three favorite Mac member solo albums:

Out of the Cradle
In the Meantime
Law and Order

[Fiver]

Funny how differently people can see things. Keeps things interesting, though.

I know I'm in the minority(maybe completely on my own?) here when I say that OotC is my least favorite of LB's solo albums. The production kills it for me, it's too slick and cheesy sounding for my taste. Some great songs, but I don't care for the style they were recorded in. I love L&O from start to finish, on the other hand. There's so much going on in the tracks, and I absolutely love the pacing. As soon as it's over I wanna hear it all again. Trouble, obviously, is a standout, but I'll Tell You Now, Shadow of the West & Mary Lee Jones (those double backed vocals and dat guitar solo) are also brilliant.

In my opinion he was still on a creative high from Tusk when he made Law & Order and it shows ( I feel the same about SN's Bella Donna). Not to discount later works at all (even with OotC not being to my taste, it marks a new more philosophical style of lyric writing from him that got even better on UtS and GoS) but I don't think he, Christine or Stevie have reached that high-water mark of creativity set by Tusk again.

It's like:

Rumours = Tusk >>>>>>>>>>>> everything that came after

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Fiver

Funny how differently people can see things. Keeps things interesting, though.

I know I'm in the minority(maybe completely on my own?) here when I say that OotC is my least favorite of LB's solo albums.

There's someone else on earth that agrees with you. My problem with OOTC is exactly yours too. It's the production, but especially on the drumtracks. They're cold and slick. On GI too, but there are those syndrums in place with the whole sound, so for me that's not a problem. OOTC was in terms of songwriting on the same level as other albums though. Great pieces of work.

I agree on the highpoint that is Tusk. But I must say that I don't agree on the later work with you. The original GOS was a masterpiece too. It is still a pity that that one never saw the light of day as an album.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by Fiver

Funny how differently people can see things. Keeps things interesting, though.

I know I'm in the minority(maybe completely on my own?) here when I say that OotC is my least favorite of LB's solo albums. The production kills it for me, it's too slick and cheesy sounding for my taste. Some great songs, but I don't care for the style they were recorded in. I love L&O from start to finish, on the other hand. There's so much going on in the tracks, and I absolutely love the pacing. As soon as it's over I wanna hear it all again. Trouble, obviously, is a standout, but I'll Tell You Now, Shadow of the West & Mary Lee Jones (those double backed vocals and dat guitar solo) are also brilliant.

In my opinion he was still on a creative high from Tusk when he made Law & Order and it shows ( I feel the same about SN's Bella Donna). Not to discount later works at all (even with OotC not being to my taste, it marks a new more philosophical style of lyric writing from him that got even better on UtS and GoS) but I don't think he, Christine or Stevie have reached that high-water mark of creativity set by Tusk again.

It's like:

Rumours = Tusk >>>>>>>>>>>> everything that came after

I agree that Tusk is the high point for all three of these artists. And everything after seems to be a response to the commercial success of Rumours/relative failure of Tusk, in each songwriters' idiosyncratic ways. You know the phrase "anxiety of influence"--what's it called when YOU are your own "influence"? No wonder they never quite melded as a group again in the studio... until, I'd argue, SYW which, in many ways, is a different animal (B/N with the universe's greatest rhythm section).

I also agree that OotC is Lindsey's weakest solo album--now that I've totally reawakened to UTS. But mostly I feel it's less to do with the sound--the layered guitars are gorgeous--than its length--and the fact that most of it sounds the same. Still, it's a very beautiful thing--and the last time his voice was in perfect shape.

[chiliD]

It's just mind boggling to me that there are people....

1) ...who think Tusk was a friggin' masterpiece, yet, Law & Order "sucks". Damn, Lindsey's songs between the two albums are f-ing interchangeable. There's little to no difference in style or production between Tusk & Law & Order except who plays & sings (or who doesn't) on them.

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

[lbfan]

I agree 100 percent with ChiliD. OOTC is a masterpiece and everything else pales in comparison. I come to this board everyday because of OOTC, and in hopes that his next CD will come close to OOTC.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by lbfan

and in hopes that his next CD will come close to OOTC.

I agree with you if he'd use a drummer this time around....but he won't on most of it.

[elle]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I agree with you if he'd use a drummer this time around....but he won't on most of it.

from "seeds we sow" interview:

"Are you playing the drums?
No, it was machine drums and some [Apple] GarageBand stuff. And then there is also Walfredo Reyes [Jr.], who was on our last tour; he played on a few things. Some of it, there’s no drums at all. Then, once you start playing little bits of things for people, they tend to gravitate to the tracks with drums, so I said, “Okay, I’m gonna hedge my bets here, make sure that I’m covered if that’s where this album wants to go.” I wanted to be open-minded."

i read this, especially parts in bold, as saying that Walfredo Reyes Jr. plays drums on at least some of the new tracks, and perhaps even most of it (although hard to tell).

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

There's someone else on earth that agrees with you. My problem with OOTC is exactly yours too. It's the production, but especially on the drumtracks. They're cold and slick. On GI too, but there are those syndrums in place with the whole sound, so for me that's not a problem. OOTC was in terms of songwriting on the same level as other albums though. Great pieces of work.

I agree on the highpoint that is Tusk. But I must say that I don't agree on the later work with you. The original GOS was a masterpiece too. It is still a pity that that one never saw the light of day as an album.

Nice to know I'm not on my own, looks like there are some like-minded folks out there. Who'd have thought it?

I have yet to hear the bootlegged GoS, not sure why. I'll have to track that down. That said, UtS and GoS are pretty great in my book.

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

I agree that Tusk is the high point for all three of these artists. And everything after seems to be a response to the commercial success of Rumours/relative failure of Tusk, in each songwriters' idiosyncratic ways. You know the phrase "anxiety of influence"--what's it called when YOU are your own "influence"? No wonder they never quite melded as a group again in the studio... until, I'd argue, SYW which, in many ways, is a different animal (B/N with the universe's greatest rhythm section).

I also agree that OotC is Lindsey's weakest solo album--now that I've totally reawakened to UTS. But mostly I feel it's less to do with the sound--the layered guitars are gorgeous--than its length--and the fact that most of it sounds the same. Still, it's a very beautiful thing--and the last time his voice was in perfect shape.

Don't have much to add, just that that last paragraph is basically how I feel, only much better stated. I didn't mean to bash OotC as it might've across. LB hasn't made a dud, IMO.

Originally Posted by chiliD

It's just mind boggling to me that there are people....

1) ...who think Tusk was a friggin' masterpiece, yet, Law & Order "sucks". Damn, Lindsey's songs between the two albums are f-ing interchangeable. There's little to no difference in style or production between Tusk & Law & Order except who plays & sings (or who doesn't) on them.

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

I wouldn't say I'm 'crapping all over' OotC, I just don't think it's his masterpiece. I agree there's fantastic songwriting on it and it's virtually filler free (though I'm not a fan of him re-using melodies/riffs as with Doing What I Can), but overall, it's just too staid (as TrueFaith77 said) and I don't care for the production. I'm just guessing here, but to me, it sounds like it's been tweaked and refined and polished too much. Reminds me of when I go back to a drawing that I started months ago and try to touch up some tiny little flaw that only I could see anyway, and end up losing the original feel of the picture.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by chiliD

It's just mind boggling to me that there are people....

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

I put together a playlist of Lindsey's singles--and it's really fascinating because one can totally hear the progression and REFINEMENT in his sound to which you refer. Just as I have recently with UTS, I wouldn't be surprised if I turned around on OotC--it's just, strangely, the solo album of his to which I less frequently return. In any case, I would never consider it "weak"--I should have said "least strong"/"least great" rather than "weakest." Again, I don't mind the sound or the production of the album the way some do who find it too polished or foo foo. Anyway, I know what I'll be listening to this weekend. Thank you, chili!

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by elle

from "seeds we sow" interview:

"Are you playing the drums?
No, it was machine drums and some [Apple] GarageBand stuff. And then there is also Walfredo Reyes [Jr.], who was on our last tour; he played on a few things. Some of it, there’s no drums at all. Then, once you start playing little bits of things for people, they tend to gravitate to the tracks with drums, so I said, “Okay, I’m gonna hedge my bets here, make sure that I’m covered if that’s where this album wants to go.” I wanted to be open-minded."

i read this, especially parts in bold, as saying that Walfredo Reyes Jr. plays drums on at least some of the new tracks, and perhaps even most of it (although hard to tell).

I know, elle. I was referring to the same fragment: Some of it will have drummachines and Garageband, some no drums at all, some Wally. Therefore, I concluded: no drummer on most of it. Haha, it's all speculation isn't it.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by chiliD

2)...who crap all over Out Of The Cradle. It's Lindsey's Pet Sounds, it's his Smile, it's his Sgt Pepper...it's his highwater mark. Everything since pales in comparison, everything before just was a process to getting to it. From Go Insane to Tango In The Night to Out Of The Cradle, he'd reached the mountain top and there was nowhere to go but down (or repeat himself). "Weak"?? WTF are you talkin' about...it's not just HIS STRONGEST album, it's one of the STRONGEST albums ever made...there's not a "filler" track on it (if you don't count the "intros" as separate tracks and count them as part of the track they lead into). In the history of albums there are very few that flow as smoothly from track to track, from beginning to end as Out Of The Cradle.

Perfect post. I agree so much with all of this.