Smile At You... philosophical question - Page 2

APerfectLie · #16 02-27-2011, 06:23 PM

Well, as someone who heard the SYW version first, I must say I love it. Don't get me wrong, I love the "angry" version too, but I think the produced version is superior. As for lyric changes, I don't see what everyone's fuss is about. Stevie had those lyrics in the 80's (even "I should have turned and ran, as fast as I can"!), why would she go and change them back in 2002?

mikebise · #17 02-27-2011, 06:37 PM

They're saying Stevie should have sung those lyrics, not whispery LB vocals.

CreepingDeath · #18 02-27-2011, 07:05 PM

Really the only thing I like about the SYW version is John's bass. It's aces. The new Smile At You can never compete with the wrath of the demo though. Lindsey's production can suck it.

markolas · #19 02-27-2011, 07:14 PM

I actually like what Lindsey did with this song a lot. The demos (esp. the "angry version") were raw, but the song sort of meandered.

I don't have a problem at all w/ LB's singing on it, but the bad grammar makes me cringe every time I listen to it. Also, the "Go on save yourself...leave the key here...you love someone else...I shouldn't be here" line makes no sense. If the guy is the one who's leaving, then shouldn't it be "You love someone else...*you* shouldn't be here"?

I can't get past those two things. At all.

And it's far from being just Stevie who does things like this. I read books all the time - major authors published by major publishers - bad syntax, worse grammar...sometimes they even make up words ("ourself" - ugh). Makes me want to take out my red pen, and I'm not even a teacher.

skuncles · #20 02-27-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markolas

I actually like what Lindsey did with this song a lot. The demos (esp. the "angry version") were raw, but the song sort of meandered.

I don't have a problem at all w/ LB's singing on it, but the bad grammar makes me cringe every time I listen to it. Also, the "Go on save yourself...leave the key here...you love someone else...I shouldn't be here" line makes no sense. If the guy is the one who's leaving, then shouldn't it be "You love someone else...*you* shouldn't be here"?

I can't get past those two things. At all.

That line makes perfect sense. I've always assumed that in this case Stevie just realized that the guy is involved with someone. Up til now she thought the guy was single. Now that she knows she is saying she needs to get out. She's saying she shouldn't be a part of this whole thing. She could be talking to herself. When she says "Go on save yourself, leave the key here...." she's talking to herself. She could have said "HE loves someone else and I shouldn't be here..." But that sounds kind of awkward.

michelej1 · #21 02-27-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markolas

Also, the "Go on save yourself...leave the key here...you love someone else...I shouldn't be here" line makes no sense. If the guy is the one who's leaving, then shouldn't it be "You love someone else...*you* shouldn't be here"?

I can't get past those two things. At all.

Maybe they had a hotel room or rented love shack, which neither of them actually lived in full time. So, he should leave the key, 'cause she's going to end the relationship and end the lease. And she shouldn't be there either.

I actually think like this for a lot of Stevie songs because they seem to take place (in my mind) in a hotel rather than a house. That's why she's always listening through a wall or outside in the hall or something. There's something surreptitious about it, which is why I don't think they're in a home together. Rather they seem to be having an affair on the side.

That's why she hears his voice in the (hotel) room next to hers in If Anyone Falls. That's why she's wondering if she should stand outside his (hotel) door and wait for Thrown Down. That's why she's alone in her "room" in Fall From Grace. She's an adult who owns a house. You really don't talk about "rooms" unless you're a kid or you have a roommate and your bedroom is the only place that's yours alone. When Stevie talks about rooms a lot, I envision them as hotel rooms, mostly.

Michele

CADreaming · #22 02-27-2011, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1

Maybe they had a hotel room or rented love shack, which neither of them actually lived in full time. So, he should leave the key, 'cause she's going to end the relationship and end the lease. And she shouldn't be there either.

I actually think like this for a lot of Stevie songs because they seem to take place (in my mind) in a hotel rather than a house. That's why she's always listening through a wall or outside in the hall or something. There's something surreptitious about it, which is why I don't think they're in a home together. Rather they seem to be having an affair on the side.

That's why she hears his voice in the (hotel) room next to hers in If Anyone Falls. That's why she's wondering if she should stand outside his (hotel) door and wait for Thrown Down. That's why she's alone in her "room" in Fall From Grace. She's an adult who owns a house. You really don't talk about "rooms" unless you're a kid or you have a roommate and your bedroom is the only place that's yours alone. When Stevie talks about rooms a lot, I envision them as hotel rooms, mostly.

Michele

And the hallways with the doors ....yes, she's in a hotel. I think in Live in Chicago when introducing IAF she even says - "I went straight home to my hotel and wrote this song."

Makes sense.

soul_drifter333 · #23 02-27-2011, 08:45 PM

Ultimately, the blame has to be placed on Stevie. Like she has said before, if she does not like how a song turns out then it gets pulled and goes back into the vault. It is her song, and after all the years I'm sure that she has enough say to pull one of her own songs if she does not like how it came out. The problem is...why didn't she? In fact, why didn't the whole band (all 4) realize that the album was not up to par with the rest of their releases. Sure it is o.k. but at this point in their career they should only want to leave quality work behind. There are some good songs, but it is weak in many areas.

louielouie2000 · #24 02-27-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul_drifter333

Ultimately, the blame has to be placed on Stevie. Like she has said before, if she does not like how a song turns out then it gets pulled and goes back into the vault. It is her song, and after all the years I'm sure that she has enough say to pull one of her own songs if she does not like how it came out. The problem is...why didn't she? In fact, why didn't the whole band (all 4) realize that the album was not up to par with the rest of their releases. Sure it is o.k. but at this point in their career they should only want to leave quality work behind. There are some good songs, but it is weak in many areas.

Has Stevie said she was specifically displeased with Smile At You? I know she's lambasted Lindsey's production of her songs in general on Say You Will.

aprilsrain · #25 02-27-2011, 11:44 PM

What's the demo sound like? I've only heard the SYW version. And it really does, as someone mention, sound like a B-Side out of an 80s band. But I think that's the bass line. I think the complex chorus with the roaming vocals is probably the best part of the song.

I'm not really a fan of the bridge. I think the blasting bass with the same note there just sounds amateurish in song writing. Know that opinion's probably not going to be well received. Felt like a "oh crap, we have to have a bridge to make this generic pop song structure."

tabruns · #26 02-28-2011, 12:15 AM

Actually I never heard the demo so for me "Smile At You" was brand new. I liked it. It wasn't my favorite SN track on Say You Will (that was, hands down, "Thrown Down"), but still I thought "Smile At You" was cool: I like the atmospherics, I like the "a-aaaaahhhhh", its a very eerie song.

APerfectLie · #27 02-28-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aprilsrain

What's the demo sound like? I've only heard the SYW version. And it really does, as someone mention, sound like a B-Side out of an 80s band. But I think that's the bass line. I think the complex chorus with the roaming vocals is probably the best part of the song.

I'm not really a fan of the bridge. I think the blasting bass with the same note there just sounds amateurish in song writing. Know that opinion's probably not going to be well received. Felt like a "oh crap, we have to have a bridge to make this generic pop song structure."

Jondalar · #28 02-28-2011, 12:36 AM

I think the people who are stuck on the demos are nuts. The demos were angry and rock but they went nowhere. They just meandered. Lindsey turned that song into a gem. He wrapped it up into the pop song Stevie wanted. It's her best vocal on that album, too. He is a genious.

aprilsrain · #29 02-28-2011, 12:47 AM

Wow, now that I've heard, that version is a ton more passionate, I agree. I do like the bridge as it sounds in the demo a lot more, but I still think the polished choruses sound nice with the SYW version. I don't think Stevie can really belt like that anymore though.

mezzoforte · #30 02-28-2011, 01:32 AM

I really like the SYW version, and consider it one of her stronger songs on the album. Granted, I'm approaching it from a different angle--as a newer fan, I heard the album version before the demo. Even still, some of the criticism of LB's production is a little unfair--no arrangement in 2003 could have lived up to people's hopes. The demos were spectacular for Stevie's fiery vocal performance, and he couldn't have recreated that. I think he worked around her new voice fairly effectively--the verses are still spectacular, and there's some great instrumentation (particularly on the base). It was never going to be as passionate or powerful as the original, but it's an interesting song with a haunting quality.
That's not to say I agree with all of his choices--the chorus is pretty wonky, and it probably is overproduced (I had to giggle at someone's description of it as a messy soup of production--definitely some truth there!). But I don't think there would be this vitriol towards it fans hadn't spent years listening to the demo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1

Maybe they had a hotel room or rented love shack, which neither of them actually lived in full time. So, he should leave the key, 'cause she's going to end the relationship and end the lease. And she shouldn't be there either.

I actually think like this for a lot of Stevie songs because they seem to take place (in my mind) in a hotel rather than a house. That's why she's always listening through a wall or outside in the hall or something. There's something surreptitious about it, which is why I don't think they're in a home together. Rather they seem to be having an affair on the side.

That's why she hears his voice in the (hotel) room next to hers in If Anyone Falls. That's why she's wondering if she should stand outside his (hotel) door and wait for Thrown Down. That's why she's alone in her "room" in Fall From Grace. She's an adult who owns a house. You really don't talk about "rooms" unless you're a kid or you have a roommate and your bedroom is the only place that's yours alone. When Stevie talks about rooms a lot, I envision them as hotel rooms, mostly.

Michele

Nice interpretation--I hadn't pictured it that way, but I think your right to set this song in a hotel, as many others certainly are. It adds interesting elements to so many songs--the loneliness of being on the road (Imperial Hotel?), the odd position of knowing people in the the next room intimately.
Setting Smile at You in a hotel might go a long way in explaining the tension in the relationship-- she's traveling with a former lover, and though she should be running away, she's effectively trapped with him.

I love the lyrics to Smile At You--powerful and evocative, and quite revealing of how Stevie saw herself at that point. The lyrics are a huge part of what makes the SYW version work for me.

I always think of Lindsey and Carol Ann when I hear it. Does the timing work for it to be about them?
The way I imagine it, the song is about the ongoing relationship between Stevie and LB after he got together with CAH. Driven by jealousy or lingering affection, she made the mistake of smiling at him just as he was moving on with a sweet, "willing" girl who desperately wants to make him happy (after Storms, the willing line is what made me flash to Carol). But as the love triangle builds and she finds herself in his room, she realizes "I shouldn't be here"--the relationship is bringing out the worst in her, and can't possibly end well. Smile At You is Stevie looking at Lindsey with his Disney princess girlfriend, and feeling like a self-destructive mess (whose walls are flaming!).

At least, that's the story in my head. But maybe it's about something completely different. She does say, "I am older now"--is it an older relationship? Anyone have info on the meaning?