The View - Rosie Vs Elizabeth

[carrie721]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sheldo...s_b_49186.html

Dated: 2007-05-23
Did Rosie Call Our Troops Terrorists?

The is directly from the transcripts of The View for May 17th:

O’DONNELL: …… I just want to say something. 655,000 Iraqi civilians are dead. Who are the terrorists?
HASSELBECK: Who are the terrorists?
O’DONNELL: 655,000 Iraqis — I’m saying you have to look, we invaded –
HASSELBECK: Wait, who are you calling terrorists now? Americans?
O’DONNELL: I’m saying if you were in Iraq, and the other country, the United States, the richest in the world, invaded your country and killed 655,000 of your citizens, what would you call us?
HASSELBECK: Are we killing their citizens or are their people also killing their citizens?
O’DONNELL: We’re invading a sovereign nation, occupying a country against the U.N.

I just watched Chris Matthews and his panel of journalists including Howard Feinman, Jill Zuckman, and Jonathan Capehart. Matthews asked the panel after replaying that segment of the show if she in fact said that our troops were the terrorists. They unanimously agreed with Matthews that she did call our troops terrorists. That conforms with the majority of journalists who have reported on this comment.

Rosie does not mention the troops at all in that segment of the show. She poses a rhetorical question. “Who are the terrorists?” “I’m saying if you were in Iraq, and the other country, the United States, the richest in the world, invaded your country and killed 655,000 of your citizens, what would you call us?”In both of her rhetorical questions she refers to the “United States” and “us.” The policy of the United States or “our” policy in Iraq is not the responsibility of the soldiers who are ordered to execute the policy. It is obvious that state supported terrorism can only be implemented by those who have the responsibility of doing the fighting and dying. But, it is not the soldiers who are the terrorists in that hypothetical. And she was not calling the soldiers terrorists.

It is absolutely absurd that these journalists agreed with the interpretation that Matthews and the majority of the MSM had concluded.These journalists who are supposed to be experts on language and communication certainly know that she meant that the U.S. policy was the villain here and not the soldiers. Yet they persist in accusing the accusers who do not fit into their elite club. People like Rosie and others who have been branded as eccentric and outside the main stream are always fair game. They do it with many others who speak truth to power by carefully portraying sound bites out of context. They have done that to Noam Chomsky and Gore Vidal for years.

The truth is that it was the elite reporters like the Hardball panel aforementioned who aided and abetted the rush to war in Iraq and fostered the terrorist policy that has resulted in this catastrophe. So it is not Rosie who is the villain. It is journalists like these who have to rationalize their lack of courage and appropriate skepticism of a “policy” that has resulted in the deaths of thousands of our soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

[danax6]

^
Hurray Huffington Post. Finally someone who got it right. Ofcourse the soldiers aren't the terrorists, they are merely executing a job that has been laid upon their shoulders, there's nothing they can do about it. That is exactly why in my opinion it's perfectly alright and even logical to speak out against the war but still want to support the troops. Stevie supports the troops and her unwillingness to give her opinion about the war already says enough. Same thing with Joan Baez the other day, she's spoken out against the war, but she still wants to sing for the troops to lift their spirits. That goes for many people, including Rosie. It's despicable how they've twisted around her words.

Oh, and I love Rosie, btw.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by danax6

^
Hurray Huffington Post. Finally someone who got it right. Ofcourse the soldiers aren't the terrorists, they are merely executing a job that has been laid upon their shoulders, there's nothing they can do about it. That is exactly why in my opinion it's perfectly alright and even logical to speak out against the war but still want to support the troops. Stevie supports the troops and her unwillingness to give her opinion about the war already says enough. Same thing with Joan Baez the other day, she's spoken out against the war, but she still wants to sing for the troops to lift their spirits. That goes for many people, including Rosie. It's despicable how they've twisted around her words.

absolutely. i agree with everything you said.

Oh, and I love Rosie, btw.

lordy, i do too. i am really going to miss her on the view. well, not really, cuz i'm going to stop watching. but i'll miss having her on tv every day.

[GODDESS6]

wowzwer, i saw this live~ though i DO NOT agree w/ most all of what elizabeth says, i still think rosie is obnoxious as hell, she comes off so brash, classless & loud, which in my honest opinion makes her look so uneducated~ i don't want to hear a word rosie says because of her delivery~ she is just as annoying as elizabeth & i can't wait till she leaves the view, then i can pick up watching it regularly again~ if she got in my face like that i would go toe to toe w/ her just as elizabeth did, i mean she's a stand up comedian for god's sake, isn't that where she got her start?, i certainly don't look to her for the way i feel & i DO NOT think her opinions are always right either~ & i am so sick of her pulling out the "fat lesbian" card all the time~

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by GODDESS6

wowzwer, i saw this live~ though i DO NOT agree w/ most all of what elizabeth says, i still think rosie is obnoxious as hell, she comes off so brash, classless & loud, which in my honest opinion makes her look so uneducated~ i don't want to hear a word rosie says because of her delivery~ she is just as annoying as elizabeth & i can't wait till she leaves the view, then i can pick up watching it regularly again~ if she got in my face like that i would go toe to toe w/ her just as elizabeth did, i mean she's a stand up comedian for god's sake, isn't that where she got her start?, i certainly don't look to her for the way i feel & i DO NOT think her opinions are always right either~ & i am so sick of her pulling out the "fat lesbian" card all the time~

first of all, i don't think rosie's background as a standup comedian precludes her from having and expressing political opinions. and does anyone really look to her to know how to feel or what to think? does any remotely intelligent person do that with any tv personality? and how was she pulling the fat lesbian card? she was saying that is how she's constantly being represented in the media and it's true. she is constantly being misrepresented in the press. look at the headlines for her recent statements about our soldiers & terrorism for proof of that. it's bordering on libel.

[GODDESS6]

Originally Posted by carrie721

first of all, i don't think rosie's background as a standup comedian precludes her from having and expressing political opinions. and does anyone really look to her to know how to feel or what to think? does any remotely intelligent person do that with any tv personality? and how was she pulling the fat lesbian card? she was saying that is how she's constantly being represented in the media and it's true. she is constantly being misrepresented in the press. look at the headlines for her recent statements about our soldiers & terrorism for proof of that. it's bordering on libel.

the way rosie is always jumping down people's throats everytime they have a differing opinion than hers is where i think she thinks everyone is looking to her on how they should be thinking also~ i personally could give 2 squirts of duck **** on her opinions~ as i said her personality is better left to stand up, i didn't mean that she doesn't have or shouldn't express her opinions on things, she has every right, the show hired her for that, but she does the same thing to others as she did to elizabeth yesterday~ if you don't agree w/ rosie she uses her loud, brash personality to attack you~ i'd love to go toe to toe w/ her~ & as for the media, elizabeth or the show "the view" for that matter has nothing to do them printing she is a "fat lesbian attacking poor pure christain elizabeth", so why bring it up & throw it in her face?~ is she not lesbian? & uhm no disrespect, but she isn't exactly thin, i think the "poor pure christain", remarks are just as bad~ i for that matter would never address anyone that way on either side, your weight, sexual preference & religious background for that matter is not what makes me like a person, but personality has alot to do w/ it for me~ rosie just rubs me wrong, she always has even when she was an up & comer & i know alot of ledgies think she is the most awesome thing since sliced bread, & i don't bash anyone for that~ i just personally can't stand the chick is all~ and as you said as she has her opinions i have mine also ~

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by GODDESS6

the way rosie is always jumping down people's throats everytime they have a differing opinion than hers is where i think she thinks everyone is looking to her on how they should be thinking also~ i personally could give 2 squirts of duck **** on her opinions~ as i said her personality is better left to stand up, i didn't mean that she doesn't have or shouldn't express her opinions on things, she has every right, the show hired her for that, but she does the same thing to others as she did to elizabeth yesterday~ if you don't agree w/ rosie she uses her loud, brash personality to attack you~ i'd love to go toe to toe w/ her~ & as for the media, elizabeth or the show "the view" for that matter has nothing to do them printing she is a "fat lesbian attacking poor pure christain elizabeth", so why bring it up & throw it in her face?~ is she not lesbian? & uhm no disrespect, but she isn't exactly thin, i think the "poor pure christain", remarks are just as bad~ i for that matter would never address anyone that way on either side, your weight, sexual preference & religious background for that matter is not what makes me like a person, but personality has alot to do w/ it for me~ rosie just rubs me wrong, she always has even when she was an up & comer & i know alot of ledgies think she is the most awesome thing since sliced bread, & i don't bash anyone for that~ i just personally can't stand the chick is all~ and as you said as she has her opinions i have mine also ~

you see loud and brash and i see passionate. i have a feeling you and i have very different personality types and that's surely why we see her differently. in regards to the fat lesbian comment, i think rosie was saying she was done arguing with elisabeth because that is how the arguments are frequently portrayed in the media. i don't think she was throwing anything in elisabeth's face, and i don't think she was calling elisabeth a poor little christian girl, she was just saying she was done with those arguments because it was always the same old schtick in the popular media. and i don't think that rosie was challenging the veracity of the fat lesbian label, she's just sick of her positions always being reduced to that. anyway, i hope you didn't think i was attacking you or anything, as you are totally entitled to dislike her. her personality is certainly not going to work for everyone. oh, and for the record, i think she might be cooler than sliced bread

[GODDESS6]

Originally Posted by carrie721

you see loud and brash and i see passionate. i have a feeling you and i have very different personality types and that's surely why we see her differently. in regards to the fat lesbian comment, i think rosie was saying she was done arguing with elisabeth because that is how the arguments are frequently portrayed in the media. i don't think she was throwing anything in elisabeth's face, and i don't think she was calling elisabeth a poor little christian girl, she was just saying she was done with those arguments because it was always the same old schtick in the popular media. and i don't think that rosie was challenging the veracity of the fat lesbian label, she's just sick of her positions always being reduced to that. anyway, i hope you didn't think i was attacking you or anything, as you are totally entitled to dislike her. her personality is certainly not going to work for everyone. oh, and for the record, i think she might be cooler than sliced bread

i love ya carrie ~

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by GODDESS6

i love ya carrie ~

[irishgrl]

I think Rosie was intellectually HONEST and not a shill for the Right Wing agenda. Its the MESSAGE thats important, not so much the messenger. Rosie is right. The war is illegal, immoral and impossible to justify. Having said that however our troops are bound to carry out the orders of the Commander in Thief (ack I cant say the real phrase, it burns my precious!)

count me in with the Rosie supporters, I think the View will be a parody of its intent without her.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . Its the MESSAGE thats important, not so much the messenger . . . .

I find it interesting that people attack Rosie for being loud and opinionated, but EH is the same when it comes to politics. I guess her appearance makes people see her as perhaps softer than Rosie. But, if you look back at the shows, EH gives her opinions as strongly as Rosie. Moreover, in this last round, Rosie tried not to get into it because of how the press slams her, but never EH. EH would not back down though and kept at it. Then, she refused to say Rosie supported the troops, etc. -- which is a lie and EH knows this. So, in the end and looking only at the facts, EH is the bad guy here. How anyone sees this in any other way is beyond me. But, I suppose people are more willing to accept boorish behaviour from a pretty package, which was Rosie's apparently accurate point.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I find it interesting that people attack Rosie for being loud and opinionated, but EH is the same when it comes to politics. I guess her appearance makes people see her as perhaps softer than Rosie. But, if you look back at the shows, EH gives her opinions as strongly as Rosie. Moreover, in this last round, Rosie tried not to get into it because of how the press slams her, but never EH. EH would not back down though and kept at it. Then, she refused to say Rosie supported the troops, etc. -- which is a lie and EH knows this. So, in the end and looking only at the facts, EH is the bad guy here. How anyone sees this in any other way is beyond me. But, I suppose people are more willing to accept boorish behaviour from a pretty package, which was Rosie's apparently accurate point.

I noticed that too....Rosie actually stopped a few times and EH kept it up even after Joy and that other gal tried to point out that things were out of hand...

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by danax6

^
Hurray Huffington Post. Finally someone who got it right. Ofcourse the soldiers aren't the terrorists, they are merely executing a job that has been laid upon their shoulders,

Well, maybe, but say you identify a group as terrorists and they have hired people to cary out their wishes, wouldn't that make those individuals terrorists? Are individuals who contribute to the accomplishment of the desire of terrorists not also terrorists? I would say that is a logical statement, and then have to agree with Chris Matthews and his panel of journalists. I don't think Rosie necessarily was saying America or the soldiers are terrorists, only that this is the way we must be viewed by Iraq.

[Kelly]

The View is going to suck when Rosie leaves. Ratings will fall and I cannot wait. Rosie, supposedly, is going to have her own show again, which I hope happens soon.

Rosie made a few comments on her blog that EH was being coached by View producers to push Rosie's buttons, to get a big debate going. Which is bull****. Very Jerry Springerish.

America seems to have a problem with loud, outspoken women. Most of the male newscasters are saying they cannot wait until she "shuts up" and "goes away". I love Rosie and think she raises alot of really valid points. She is not the one throwing the "fat lesbian" card, she was saying that the media uses that every time she gets into a conflict with someone. She is a very generous lady and it is a damn shame how her words always get twisted. I cannot wait for her to get off the View, it must be stifling working with a twit like Elizabeth.

[GateandGarden]

I understand what Rosie was saying, and I think paleshadow explained it well. The Iraqis would view the soldiers as terrorists. I think she was careful not to say that she views the soldiers as terrorists.

But honestly, I have a really hard time with this "support our troops" thing. I cringe every time I see one of those yellow ribbons. The extreme perspective I've seen in a few places online says that we should not support our troops as Germany supported theirs during WWII. From what I can see, the comparison is ludicrous, but I see the point that's trying to be made. Why should I support them if they're doing something I highly disapprove of? I realize it isn't simple for them--the alternative is jail time--but I still don't feel like I'm obligated to support an invasion of a country. I don't see how they're exempt from responsibility because they're obeying orders. That might or might not hold up in a court of law, since they're still the ones who committed the crimes.

As for Rosie, I've always found her behavior really annoying. Additionally, I never thought she was funny at all. So there never seemed like much of a reason for me to enjoy watching her, aside from the fact that from what I can tell, we share the same political beliefs.