Use force to remove Kim Jong Il from power?

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by madformac

If America or China has indeed been successful in constructing a high power neutron bomb then this would change things. A single missle that could wipe out an entire country would make a nuclear warhead look rather pathetic and restore some sanity to preceedings.

the worse case scenario weapon, called the MFVSW-Which can render any and all weapons useless to it's power once it is released upon the world.

Most who have came within distance of the MFVSW could not help but run in fear as it was unleashed upon millions of people in yearly cycles (Since 1987)

Yes, The MFVSW is the Mick Fleetwood Vest-i-bation Solo Warhead-Trust me, I saw it's power and watched as many ran for their lives...To the restrooms or to the beer stand for refills, And do ya blame 'em??

Trust me, If the UK were to drop the MFVSW upon North Korea, Kim Jong Il would be begging for China to drop the neutron bomb on 'em to end that soloing madness of that crazy as hell Mick Fleetwood and his tacky vest-i-bation!!!

[madformac]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

Sanity? That is clearly as far from sanity as humanity can get, and would create a situation in which we have one state massively dominant over all others. Anyone who thinks that would bring about global stability needs some help.

Then I suggest you mention it to the administrations of China and the USA. It won't work with one state alone. You need two states with equal but opposing views and budgets. They are the only two that can fund it and develop it right now. If any and every dictatorship gets hold of the dangerous toys then one of them will let one off. It's like a bunch of kids with fireworks. Most know what can happen, it just takes one idiot to light it.

With all due respect I don't believe you are thinking about this logically. The best and ideal situation would be for no nuclear weapons and no conflicts at all. Unfortunately I really can't see this happening in the society we currently live in. Those nations with nuclear capabilities will not relinquish them through fear of being useless in a military scenario without them. You can't go back. Its made those nations rich and powerful. They have basically ruled by fear. Bullying really. They won't give that up and the only way forward for other countries is to gain the same technologies. Thus the game goes on and the stakes need to be raised to maintain equilibrium.

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

Telling India and Pakistan that their governments are 50 years behind ours in terms of mentality is a quick way to p*ss them off as well. It's the attitude that says to less-developed countries "You're not fit to choose how to run your own country" that causes all the problems. When I say 'leave North Korea alone' I mean leave it alone, not grumble and moan about them and wave sticks at them, threatening them if they choose a path you don't like the look of - as the West has done for years. Yes, it's badly run, yes it's a humanitarian disaster zone.

Certainly India is enjoying great economic boom now it has nuclear capabilities. Pakistan has strengthened its bond with the USA and has increased foriegn funding. So "going nuclear" seems to work in getting attention. Governments that think that building a massive arsenal and nuclear weapons and then announcing it as if to say "I'm in the big league now" are the childish ones, and are in the position the USA, Russia and even the UK were in back in the days of the manhattan project. More than 50 years ago. I'm not saying those nations are correct in their thinking now either, I'm saying they made a wrong choice 50 years back and now everything that follows is a consequence. They realise this and need to find a way to sort it out before an incident occurs.

North Korea is a different proposition than any other country with nuclear capabilities. Of course America invaded Iraq. The reason they did so was entirely the opposite of the PR exercise. They knew there were no WMD before hand (I have this from a direct source at a very high level in the UK). They wanted Saddam out because he destabilised their position and influence in the middle east. Nothing to do with weapons. Now if he had weapons they wouldn't have even gone near the place.

As for telling countries how to run themselves. Well America and the UK clearly are quite useless at this too. They can't even run their own countries properly. The main reason being they have so many fingers in so many pies all over the world they haven't got enough left to look after themselves.

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

but threatening unstable countries with military force is something a 5 year old child might think was a good idea.

Theres one in the White House already.......

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

I disagree. I don't think he can do us much harm at all and it's just another administration ploy to get us all jingoistic.

Really, the "long-range" missile fell in the ocean short of Japan, and the others were worse. And none of them can carry significant payload.

Plus, if they ever were a serious threat, Japan, Russia and China would slap the s**t out of them quicker than Monkey Boy could get on the tube to make a speech.

There are humanitarian reasons to get rid of the guy, but is that something we want to spend billions on? We'll either ignore it, like we do in Africa, or we'll liberate them like we did the Iraqis.

While Im not sure his long range missiles can do much harm I must disagree about the threat potential. This guy is unhinged. He is so bent on having the world's attention focused on him that I think he IS a threat.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by madformac

The only way he will lose power is assasination and in a country like North Korea its exceptionally difficult. Added to the fact that it won't solve the situation either.

America, with its shiny missiles, new aircraft and well equipped troopers couldn't do the job alone. No matter what Bush is saying about going it alone over diplomacy.

First off the USA has in the region of 480,000 soldiers. Once you've deducted those serving in Iraq (about 180,000) and Afganistan (rumoured to be around 15-20,000), not to mention those posted around the world, you are looking at about 250,000 troops available. Not bad, except for the fact that the North Korean army alone has over a million troops, thats 4-1 in their favour if you threw every man at them. You just can't go marching in.

Add to that the DMZ between North and South Korea contains roughly 2-3 million landmines you can't walk in from South Korea either.

Bombing from the air alone cannot get the job done in this type of situation either.

Now if China, Russia, Japan, Europe and the USA all agreed to action then it might work. But that also means effectively starting a world war. The only other thing to do would be to destroy North Korea totally with nuclear capabilities but this would affect the surrounding regions badly (not to mention the civilian casualties). Not an option you want to take unless NK strikes first and the major powers all agree on this action.

Assasination would work to a degree but then who replaces him? They have a fanatical regime with most of the country supporting the leader. It's not like Iraq, Afganistan or Iran. You fight him you fight them all..

Its a major problem for sure

but we do have troops in South Korea already....so we've got at least a starting point....

[irishgrl]

Report: N. Korea Missile Aimed at Hawaii
-
Thursday, July 6, 2006

(07-06) 20:00 PDT TOKYO, Japan (AP) --

North Korea targeted waters near Hawaii when it fired a long-range missile this week, a Japanese newspaper reported Friday.

The long-range Taepodong-2 was part of a barrage of seven missiles test-fired by North Korea on Wednesday. They all fell harmlessly into the Sea of Japan, but South Korean officials said the long-range missile had malfunctioned, suggesting it was intended for a more remote target.

Japan's conservative mainstream daily Sankei

said that Japanese and U.S. defense officials have concluded that the Taepodong-2 had targeted the U.S. state of Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean, after analyzing data collected from their intelligence equipment.

The newspaper quoted unidentified Japanese and U.S. government officials.

The officials decided that the missile was pointed at Hawaii from its angle immediately after launch and the altitude it reached, after analyzing data collected by destroyers equipped with the Aegis radar combat system and RC-135S electronic reconnaissance aircraft, the newspaper said.

It said the findings support a belief North Korean intended the launch as a protest over U.S. economic sanctions against the isolated regime.

But Pentagon officials said Thursday that the brief flight of the Taepodong-2 missile made it difficult to collect useful technical data, including its intended target, its payload and whether it was a two-stage or three-stage missile.

Some U.S. officials were even leaning toward the theory that it was configured as a space launch to deliver a satellite into orbit, rather than as a flight test of a ballistic missile.

Japanese Defense Agency refused to confirm the Sankei report.

The Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile, has a range of up to 15,000 kilometers (9,300 miles) and believed capable of reaching parts of the United States with a light payload.

Hawaii is about 7,000 kilometers (4,350 miles) southwest of North Korea.

The daily said it was not immediately known why Hawaii was targeted, but added that analysts believe Pyongyang might have tried to demonstrate that the missile could reach the United States, or because Hawaii is home to the headquarters of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

North Korea might have avoided targeting Alaska because of a risk that the missile could mistakenly hit a land area in that route, the report said.


URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...i200025D52.DTL

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by madformac

The US has pissed away most of its military budget in Iraq and wasted billions of dollars of equipment. It will take months if not years to build the firepower back up, and thats when they eventually pull out. The Bush administration has put its own citizens in danger by its misappropriation of funds. The Katrina event is one such disgusting example.

I agree that Katrina shows just how inept this administration is for dealing with disaster. BUT: make no mistake, Americans can mobilize with lightning speed when the need arises. Witness, WWII. We DO have the ability and the willingness to move quickly and sacrifice mightily when called upon. Our problem is our Leadership. change the order-giver and you change the result.

[hayley]

What happened to the original thread title? I really liked "Let's dance, dickweed!"

[DavidMn]

Originally Posted by hayley

What happened to the original thread title? I really liked "Let's dance, dickweed!"

I'm glad you thought it was funny! I used it because its a line from Anchorman with Will Ferrell, one of my all time favorites. But one of the moderators felt it was a little to questionable. No big deal.