Stevie or Sheryl Crow

[Serrart]

I respect Sheryl Crow, even if I've never been a big fan of hers. Personally I haven't seen in her songwriting anything really memorable. But there's still time.

Romy

[ELIUD]

This is from my favorite Sheryl album so far, her self-titled one.
It's called Redemption day. I'd swear she's channeling Stevie while doing her own harmony on this song. I can post it when I get home.

"Redemption Day"
I've wept for those who suffer long
But how I weep for those who've gone
Into rooms of grief and questioned wrong
But keep on killing
It's in the soul to feel such things
But weak to watch without speaking
Oh what mercy sadness brings
If God be willing

There is a train that's heading straight
To heaven's gate, to heaven's gate
And on the way, child and man,
And woman wait, watch and wait
For redemption day

Fire rages in the streets
And swallows everything it meets
It's just an image often seen
On television
Come leaders, come you men of great
Let us hear you pontificate
Your many virtues laid to waste
And we aren't listening

What do you have for us today
Throw us a bone but save the plate
On why we waited til so late
Was there no oil to excavate
No riches in trade for the fate
Of every person who died in hate
Throw us a bone, you men of great

There is a train that's heading straight
To heaven's gate, to heaven's gate
And on the way, child and man,
And woman wait, watch and wait
For redemption day

It's buried in the countryside
It's exploding in the shells at night
It's everywhere a baby cries
Freedom

[Stevie_Buck]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

are you kidding me with this question?

My sentiments exactly!

[ELIUD]

Here's "Redemption Day". I wish Sheryl would have sung this with Stevie doing the harmony for hurricane relief somewhere. It's so anti-government and appropriate.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by ELIUD

This is from my favorite Sheryl album so far, her self-titled one.
It's called Redemption day. I'd swear she's channeling Stevie while doing her own harmony on this song. I can post it when I get home.

Cool beans. That's my favorite Sheryl song. Along with "Member's Only" from The Globe Sessions. Anyone who doubts the talents of Crow need only listen to those songs.

[David]

I'm not a fan of Sheryl Crow, & I probably know only about three of her songs, but I think she's a capable lyricist, player & singer. Her songs really spoke to the twentysomethings & thirtysomethings of the Clinton years in the U.S. (essentially the VH1 crowd at the time) -- connected with them & made them feel part of a more categorical movement of settled, calm maturity (along with acts like Dave Matthews Band).

[bushesandbriars]

Sheryl can hold her own, and in terms of collaborations, hers are more impressive than Stevie's, frankly: The Rolling Stones, The Allman Brothers, Al Green, Johnny Cash, Bonnie Raitt, Bob Dylan, Eddie Van Halen, Salt N Pepa, Los Lobos, Levon Helm, Pat Benatar, Emmylou Harris, Steve Earle, Dixie Chicks, Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Harry Connick, Jr., Chrissie Hynde, Don Henley, Willie Nelson, Steve Winwood, Scott Weiland, Counting Crows, Kris Kristofferson, Rosanne Cash, Mitchell Froom, Mary J. Blige, pretty much everyone at Lilith Fair, and Eric Clapton are all people she's performed live and/or recorded with at one point or another. She has broader appeal than Stevie has, I think, which leads to its own sort of canonization. Her rep will be entwined the people she's collaborated with, especially the ones she's recorded alongside.

That said, though, I think Stevie has been truer to her long-term vision over time. After the derivative and twee piece of mediocrity Crow just released, coming on the heels of the utterly forgettable "First Cut" and the largely forgettable C'mon C'mon, I don't think her middle stretch is nearly as impressive as her first three albums. I also think she's essentially sacrificed whatever musical vision she initially had. Stevie suffers from a bland middle stretch as well, but I don't ever really doubt her commitment as a songwriter, although I do sometimes doubt it in the overall process of record-making. But I think she is intrinsically dedicated to her music in a way Crow is not.

I also think there are a number of women out there who are in the singer-songwriter genre who are considerably more talented than Crow is: Shawn Colvin, Allison Moorer, Maria McKee, Ani Difranco, Rosanne Cash, Tori Amos and Patti Griffin, to name a few. Especially Moorer, who is closest in genre and influences to Crow. I also think, once they have a few more albums under their respective belts, that Tift Merritt and Kathleen Edwards will turn out to be better artists over the long haul than Crow. And although I would rank Crow the better singer, Jonatha Brooke is a better writer.

I thought it was absurd of Crow to be comparing her new album, which is largely filled with school-girl notebook musings and pseudo-spiritual, privileged rock-star meditations, to Harvest or even Elton John. Her latest record, which she's been touting as her best, most mature work, is an out-of-touch rehash. Her spiritual and political insights are laughable, and her vocal phrasing is stolen directly from Stevie Wonder, Neil Young, Elton John, and Emmylou Harris. One of Stevie's strengths has been that she looks to sources outside music to work from, which helps the music, because it isn't all coming from a place of, "I want it to sound like this song." There's some outside frame of reference. And even when Stevie steals, at least she steals interestingly from people's books rather than songs. Crow is just very bland and ordinary as of late; there are no surprises in the influences, no originality of vision, no challenge to herself. And that's something Stevie, even at her worst, hasn't really been. She can be fey, she can be precious, she can be out of it, she can be vague, she can be sloppy, but she's really not bland-Starbucks-marketed-cozy-spirituality-for-the-masses.

So I think one could certainly make the argument that Crow's a sell-out, an argument I wouldn't really make about Stevie, although I know some would about "Bootylicious" and the Australian race and Lohan's new remake. An English reviewer of Wildflower commented something to the effect that Crow is a cut-rate Carly Simon, and I wouldn't go quite that far, but she is in that genre of people who want to be popular on Madison Avenue and get all the street cred, and it just doesn't fly. And I want her and Stevie both to get out of the evil clutches of John Shanks.

So, anyway, I think Crow will be remembered as much as Stevie, but whether she, in comparison to a number of her peers, actually deserves it remains to be seen. Whereas I do think Stevie has earned her place among the greats, if for nothing but Mac, the first three solos, and those live performances. Crow has never been able to touch her as far as that goes.

[David]

Originally Posted by bushesandbriars

Sheryl can hold her own, and in terms of collaborations, hers are more impressive than Stevie's, frankly: The Rolling Stones, The Allman Brothers, Al Green, Johnny Cash, Bonnie Raitt, Bob Dylan, Eddie Van Halen, Salt N Pepa, Los Lobos, Levon Helm, Pat Benatar, Emmylou Harris, Steve Earle, Dixie Chicks, Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Harry Connick, Jr., Chrissie Hynde, Don Henley, Willie Nelson, Steve Winwood, Scott Weiland, Counting Crows, Kris Kristofferson, Rosanne Cash, Mitchell Froom, Mary J. Blige, pretty much everyone at Lilith Fair, and Eric Clapton are all people she's performed live and/or recorded with at one point or another. She has broader appeal than Stevie has, I think, which leads to its own sort of canonization. Her rep will be entwined the people she's collaborated with, especially the ones she's recorded alongside.

That said, though, I think Stevie has been truer to her long-term vision over time. After the derivative and twee piece of mediocrity Crow just released, coming on the heels of the utterly forgettable "First Cut" and the largely forgettable C'mon C'mon, I don't think her middle stretch is nearly as impressive as her first three albums. I also think she's essentially sacrificed whatever musical vision she initially had. Stevie suffers from a bland middle stretch as well, but I don't ever really doubt her commitment as a songwriter, although I do sometimes doubt it in the overall process of record-making. But I think she is intrinsically dedicated to her music in a way Crow is not.

I also think there are a number of women out there who are in the singer-songwriter genre who are considerably more talented than Crow is: Shawn Colvin, Allison Moorer, Maria McKee, Ani Difranco, Rosanne Cash, Tori Amos and Patti Griffin, to name a few. Especially Moorer, who is closest in genre and influences to Crow. I also think, once they have a few more albums under their respective belts, that Tift Merritt and Kathleen Edwards will turn out to be better artists over the long haul than Crow. And although I would rank Crow the better singer, Jonatha Brooke is a better writer.

I thought it was absurd of Crow to be comparing her new album, which is largely filled with school-girl notebook musings and pseudo-spiritual, privileged rock-star meditations, to Harvest or even Elton John. Her latest record, which she's been touting as her best, most mature work, is an out-of-touch rehash. Her spiritual and political insights are laughable, and her vocal phrasing is stolen directly from Stevie Wonder, Neil Young, Elton John, and Emmylou Harris. One of Stevie's strengths has been that she looks to sources outside music to work from, which helps the music, because it isn't all coming from a place of, "I want it to sound like this song." There's some outside frame of reference. And even when Stevie steals, at least she steals interestingly from people's books rather than songs. Crow is just very bland and ordinary as of late; there are no surprises in the influences, no originality of vision, no challenge to herself. And that's something Stevie, even at her worst, hasn't really been. She can be fey, she can be precious, she can be out of it, she can be vague, she can be sloppy, but she's really not bland-Starbucks-marketed-cozy-spirituality-for-the-masses.

So I think one could certainly make the argument that Crow's a sell-out, an argument I wouldn't really make about Stevie, although I know some would about "Bootylicious" and the Australian race and Lohan's new remake. An English reviewer of Wildflower commented something to the effect that Crow is a cut-rate Carly Simon, and I wouldn't go quite that far, but she is in that genre of people who want to be popular on Madison Avenue and get all the street cred, and it just doesn't fly. And I want her and Stevie both to get out of the evil clutches of John Shanks.

So, anyway, I think Crow will be remembered as much as Stevie, but whether she, in comparison to a number of her peers, actually deserves it remains to be seen. Whereas I do think Stevie has earned her place among the greats, if for nothing but Mac, the first three solos, and those live performances. Crow has never been able to touch her as far as that goes.

Beautifully considered & written post! It makes me want to chat with you!

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by David

Beautifully considered & written post! It makes me want to chat with you!

I second that.

[HejiraNYC]

Okay, enough with the Sheryl bashing! I think her latest album is definitely not the best thing she's ever done, but it's certainly not the worst- that prize goes to the (thankfully) unreleased piece of crap she recorded with Hugh Padgham in the late 80s. But as bland as her new album is, I think the acoustic DVD (in the deluxe edition) was a revelation. I actually heard/saw this first and actually liked it a lot. Then listening to the overproduced sludge of the album was mortifying! I think Sheryl was at her absolute zenith with the "Globe Sessions," but "C'mon, C'mon" at least had "The Weather Channel" and "Abilene" to redeem it. I suppose we have Lance Armstrong to thank for her (second) most emotionally vapid piece of work to date.

Back to the original point... there can be no comparison between Sheryl and Stevie on any level. Sheryl is a technician and craftswoman who is respected for her chops and versatility. Stevie is far from being technically perfect on any level, and is arguably the least versatile musically. But what she possesses that Sheryl doesn't have is self-awareness as an artist. Stevie has a singular vision of who she is and Sheryl just seems to be trying to be the most commercially viable product she can be, whatever that is. And Stevie's strong determination to be her own artist is amply rewarded by her fans. She may not sell as many (solo) albums as Sheryl, but Stevie arguably plays to larger audiences. And Sheryl will never have an audience that is totally held captivated by every note she sings. Until recently I have had great admiration for Sheryl, but the thing with Kid Rock and the "First Cut" were the beginnings of the end for me. Sheryl is now on probation in my book.

[xxxmx]

i have the single for Strong Enough and the only reason i haven't to it is because back in the day we used that case... umm... for stuff.

hmmm, Crow. ever just not like someone? i'm sure she's a swell girl, just don't like her. and the whole whoring-out to the new generation was already old five years ago when i opened Maxim (or another one of those semi-smut mags) and caught Crow wearing nothing but cheeky panties and a cowboy hat. say what you will about her, i think she's ordinary.

and then there's stevie, who i think is the opposite of ordinary in the best possible ways.

[bushesandbriars]

Thanks for the kind words, David and Jason--seems like forever since I've been around, and I'd love to get to chat with you guys, too. I've missed hanging out here and reading everyone's stuff.

David, I think you make quite a good point about Sheryl being "capable." I think that's probably the most accurate word, at this point. Whether she'll ever change my mind remains to be seen.


HejiraNYC, I think you make a number of excellent points in your post. I hope I don't come off as Sheryl-bashing; that isn't really my point. I love the first three records, too, and some of her boots are great fun. For me, C'mon C'mon was redeemed at least in part by "Abilene" and "It's Only Love." And I agree her relationship with Lance A. is largely responsible for her middle-of-the-road dribble. I think she's confusing being personally happy with being creatively at her zenith, and it ain't so. Her zenith thus far has been The Globe Sessions . She was emotionally present in that work in a way she hasn't been before or since. And your assessment of Stevie is dead-on. I don't think she has anything to follow but her own instincts; musically she's not the sophisticated craftsperson Sheryl is. It's like a left-brainer versus a right-brainer, almost. Sheryl can be quite slick and bogged down by her own cleverness a lot of the time; she could cut about 25% or more of her production off her songs lately. It'll be interesting, if things don't work out with Lance (not that I'm in favor of that; I'm just idly musing), to see if Sheryl's new "profound" world vision holds true, or if she reverts back to her former outlook. Her relationships seem to affect her artistic vision a great deal. Lots of writers write what they're living, good or bad, but the essential voice behind it is the same--Stevie is Stevie, happy or miserable; you know that voice, that outlook, and even her producers can't change that persona completely. But Sheryl's actual artistic identity seems to alter with her private life, like she puts on new personas for whatever man she's with, and it affects her music. I don't know; I don't want to psychologize anyone. But the more I consider Sheryl's shifts, the more I think that. It isn't the ordinary metamorphosis of a new approach each time that lots of musicians try; it's like a different person with no set identity or viewpoint makes Sheryl's records.

Okay, now I'm off on a tangent. Forget that last bit, folks; someone's written too many English papers.