Music Industry Worried About CD-Burning

[hayley]

I'm so tired of the whining that it's the record companies' faults for putting out 'trash.' I work for a record company. For every single crap 311 or R. Kelly CD we put out, we also put out something like the new Rodney Crowell, or British Sea Power, or Matisyahu, or Jem. Amazing records are at your local stores, they always have and they always will be. The explosion of pop artists like Britney and all that crap DOES suck, sure it does- but don't blame the record companies who have done what any business will do- exploit a popular trend for as long as possible to make the most amount of money.

The record industry isn't going to take notice and start putting out quality music on a widespread scale until people actually show them that they want it. And they have been lately, and that's a good thing.

Seriously, I'm a walking encyclopedia. Name older artists/albums you like, and I'll give you a recommendation or two for something new or new-ish you would love. The past five years have actually been incredibly fruitful in my view for great records.

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

It's not just that they are kicking out a lot of trash these days, but that trash is way over-priced. And cd singles are even more ridiculous. If they want to boost their sales they need to lower their prices because each of those cds with only one good song on them will run the consumer between $15 and $20 a pop. It's ridiculous and is the biggest reason why I almost never buy cds anymore unless it's from an artist whose work I already know and love.

Where are you buying CDs?! That's why you go to Best Buy, Target, Circuit City, Amazon, and in many cases Borders or Tower... I wish people would stop shopping at Sam Goodys and FYEs forever- Sam Goody takes pleasure in marking up the price of a CD up a buck or two from the already high price the record company has set for it.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by ryan8472

It's just Diddy

To the DMV & IRS it's "Sean".

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

You really don't know? I thought he was huge around the world, not just in America. Not that I'm saying he should be. I'll never forget how he took The Police's "Every Breath You Take" and ruined it by making it a homage to his and friend and other famous rapper who was shot and killed. Ever heard "I'll Be Missing You"? Well, if not, you're not missing anything.

I actually liked his rendition..especially when Sting performed it with him at the VMAs

Chris

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by hayley

I'm so tired of the whining that it's the record companies' faults for putting out 'trash.' I work for a record company. For every single crap 311 or R. Kelly CD we put out, we also put out something like the new Rodney Crowell, or British Sea Power, or Matisyahu, or Jem. Amazing records are at your local stores, they always have and they always will be. The explosion of pop artists like Britney and all that crap DOES suck, sure it does- but don't blame the record companies who have done what any business will do- exploit a popular trend for as long as possible to make the most amount of money.

The record industry isn't going to take notice and start putting out quality music on a widespread scale until people actually show them that they want it. And they have been lately, and that's a good thing.

Well I would agree with that EXCEPT...As you will notice when a really good and artistic performer is ACTUALLY promoted they usually catch on (IE : Norah Jones)..The record companies think this Diddy, Britney, etc. crap is all that sells, when in fact many of us just don't actually hear the "good" stuff because it's not promoted and played on radio (because the record companies are doing the whole payola thing to get certain people played)...

The record companies are relying on a specific group of people to sell music to, when in fact there's millions of people who would buy more music if the music was more quality..Well you say the quality music is out there, you just gotta find it--well that's not how it works for the average music listener. They pick up CD's based on what they hear on the radio or on TV (and now that VH1 has become another E! channel there's no chance in many good videos getting out there)---they dont go digging through the bins finding CD's by artists who havent made it yet

Chris

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I wish I didn't know who P. Diddy was....stupid P. Diddy....PICK A NAME _ STICK WITH IT!!!

Really. He needs to get over himself, already.

[David]

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

They have learned NOTHING from Vcr's. Time to get their heads out of their A#@ and figure out maybe the record sales are down because of the trash they kick out there. Who wants to buy cd after cd with only one good song on it? Give the industry back to the real music people and away from the bean counters.

Of course. It's totally obvious. I don't think the record industry would be making such a stink over CD burning if sales were up. It's because sales are down year after year that you hear all this pissing & moaning. I think the labels are reaping what they have sown, & I am highly amused by all of it. They have spent ten or fifteen years now promoting garbage from top to bottom, stuff targeting the 9- to 14-year-olds, & have not helped build careers for artists that may have longer-lived appeal. Let's face it: when that 9-year-old who loves Britney Aguilera or Christina Spears or whatever the latest flavor is gets to be 15 or so, that's it. Bye-bye, Britney. Back when the labels were a *little* smarter, they signed bands that generated a more lasting appeal -- like the band we're devoted to here on this forum.

The related aspect is that Spears/Aguilar et al. aren't the kind of music that compels fans to buy albums -- hearing that stuff on the radio or in a club is sufficient for those fans. They don't camp out at the record stores waiting for the newest release the way kids used to twenty-five or thirty-five years ago. Albums have no allure for kids any more, & that's probably because the pop stars' entire careers these days are geared so specifically to the danceable radio hit single as just a sort of droning background noise for one's clubbing or one's grind experience. You don't hear a "song" these days & think, "I'd like to hear the whole album of that artist!" You don't get excited about the lyrics, either, about reading the lyrics insert the way we used to. There's some interest in lyrics with some rap music, I guess, but the omnipresent dance music doesn't generate any interest in reading & interpreting words.

The other thing that has probably hurt sales enormously is MTV's slow & steady veering away from music (videos, concerts, etc.) to "reality" nonsense 24 hours a day.

I hope the entire industry comes crashing down or implodes from its own stupidity, but I'm a bit of an anarchist.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by David

I hope the entire industry comes crashing down or implodes from its own stupidity, but I'm a bit of an anarchist.

I love it...I agree with you..It would be amusing to see the money hungry bastards who have been trying to ruin music for 10 yrs to go bankrupt..

Chris

[hayley]

Originally Posted by David

Of course. It's totally obvious. I don't think the record industry would be making such a stink over CD burning if sales were up. It's because sales are down year after year that you hear all this pissing & moaning. I think the labels are reaping what they have sown, & I am highly amused by all of it. They have spent ten or fifteen years now promoting garbage from top to bottom, stuff targeting the 9- to 14-year-olds, & have not helped build careers for artists that may have longer-lived appeal. Let's face it: when that 9-year-old who loves Britney Aguilera or Christina Spears or whatever the latest flavor is gets to be 15 or so, that's it. Bye-bye, Britney. Back when the labels were a *little* smarter, they signed bands that generated a more lasting appeal -- like the band we're devoted to here on this forum.

The related aspect is that Spears/Aguilar et al. aren't the kind of music that compels fans to buy albums -- hearing that stuff on the radio or in a club is sufficient for those fans. They don't camp out at the record stores waiting for the newest release the way kids used to twenty-five or thirty-five years ago. Albums have no allure for kids any more, & that's probably because the pop stars' entire careers these days are geared so specifically to the danceable radio hit single as just a sort of droning background noise for one's clubbing or one's grind experience. You don't hear a "song" these days & think, "I'd like to hear the whole album of that artist!" You don't get excited about the lyrics, either, about reading the lyrics insert the way we used to. There's some interest in lyrics with some rap music, I guess, but the omnipresent dance music doesn't generate any interest in reading & interpreting words.

The other thing that has probably hurt sales enormously is MTV's slow & steady veering away from music (videos, concerts, etc.) to "reality" nonsense 24 hours a day.

I hope the entire industry comes crashing down or implodes from its own stupidity, but I'm a bit of an anarchist.

I actually completely agree with you, but for this one point- is today's explosion of teen pop crap like the Britneys and Christinas of the world really all that different from the pop of years ago like your Bay City Rollers, Partridge Family, and Osmonds of the world? To me it's the same phenomenon, but worse in the way that all of pop culture is today. It's a disgusting trend that doesn't just include pop music- it's crappy movies, tabloid media, crappy television, crappy role models- girls wearing thongs at 9 years old, etc. Pop music has just become less quality, more quantity like everything else. Is Britney the cause of the excess of our times or just a symptom?

[estranged4life]

more than 12.99 for a cd in quite a while, I usually purchase new releases at BestBuy (Excluding a few that I order directly through a musicians website such as the discs available through Chris Caffery's website http://www.chriscaffery.com ) and I dont see no reason to pay more...And f**k Wal-Mart,!!! (They may have some reasonable priced discs, but ab-so-f**kin-lutely no selection whatsoever.)

Most, if not all of the discs I buy are on smaller labels and these discs have great inserts/lyrics panels/etc and almost always contain extra material that make the discs longer than most other types of music (ie-Chris Caffery's "Faces" cd contained a bonuc disc "God Damn War" which was 42 minutes long in length...Black Lotus, his record label based in Athens, Greece just wanted a few extra bonus tracks, Not a complete bonus album.)

Btw, I dont understand and never will understand a cd single, I guess that is aimed at the younger generation because I am a diehard/old fashioned album person, Not a 'singles' person.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I can always find a nice CD in great condition, sometimes used online for WAY cheaper..thats always the route I go

half.com is a great place
as well as amazon.com

Chris

[dissention]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Btw, I dont understand and never will understand a cd single, I guess that is aimed at the younger generation because I am a diehard/old fashioned album person, Not a 'singles' person.

Well, back in the day singles were great because they had b-sides and other stuff that you couldn't hear anywhere else. Nowadays, you're pretty hard pressed to even find singles in the store because they've stopped making them, and when they do, they have **** remixes on them where b-sides and outtakes used to be. If you want that stuff, you have to buy ridiculously high priced imports from Europe.

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by hayley

I'm so tired of the whining that it's the record companies' faults for putting out 'trash.' I work for a record company. For every single crap 311 or R. Kelly CD we put out, we also put out something like the new Rodney Crowell, or British Sea Power, or Matisyahu, or Jem. Amazing records are at your local stores, they always have and they always will be. The explosion of pop artists like Britney and all that crap DOES suck, sure it does- but don't blame the record companies who have done what any business will do- exploit a popular trend for as long as possible to make the most amount of money.

I ALSO worked for a record label. And they are all the same only worse now. And Haley, I am not picking on you, but the record companies are to blame when they won't promote those "amazing" records. I have seen many great things die on the vine for lack of attention by them. (Yes, there will be exceptions to these) They = record execs.

1. They don't give new artists a chance to grow anymore, they want product shoved out as fast as possible, no time is given to produce a cd with more than a couple of decent songs on it.

2. They don't want groups anymore, just single personalities.

3. The industry is run by Accountants now..... not people who actually into the music. How many executives collect music anymore?

4. Price gouging. The cost of making a lp was $2.12. The price of a cd is less than 7 cents. Yes, they can cook the books to add in every little thing to say it is more expensive now, but it really isn't.

5. Rather than add VALUE to cds in order to gain purchasing over burning, they would rather whine. (Remember when albumns had posters and stickers...etc. I think cd's could have things added- how about band trading cards, or autographs mixed in every so many thousand? Make the boxes bigger and add stickers, or postcards, or whatever? Make the cd itself have better graphics - 3d's, holograms. How about special decoder rings? Scratch off cards for %off when you go to the concert, win free merchandise, ...Geez maybe a free coke?. A special use only once code to get more music on the web?) They can come up with something if the MUSIC itself isn't working anymore.

6. They have to adapt to new technology and accept the fact that todays entertainment dollars are going to other things besides music. (Computer games,...etc.)

7. I also blame the monopolistic radio markets. Big corps own most of the stations in major markets so a new group will almost never get airplay. If they aren't on the playlist, they aren't easily getting on.

8. They need to accept the world is changing and change with it. The technology is out there to imbed into files a limited use. 5 plays then it would go to a 30 sec sample, unless it is purchased.

9. Sure they "ride the trend" but they also keep it going and push trends that may not have survived as long as the do. (The macarana (sp) was one trend they didn't need to push...ick) Can't a trend be GOOD music on an entire cd? Or pay the artists a decent % of albumn sales? A cd liner worth looking at? ....etc.

10. Also the popular artists are to blame. One reason I HATE...yes HATE... rap/hiphop crap is they would rather Steal..oh sample...music rather than writing their own. (Among a ton of other reasons, but hey...each their own). So easy and cheap to produce this stuff then learn to play an instrument and write your own music. And no- a drum machine is not an instrument. (I cringe whenever I hear sampling). And yes, I still can't stand the fact they stole - er used - Stevie's stuff, even if she didn't mind. -harrumph.

It is down to $$$$$$$$$. They have to accept that they can't make the same margins with the same formulas from times past.

Okay off my soapbox now. (Your turn Haley )

[seeker007nmss]

Oh I almost forgot. The way they use to get around Cassettes, make the albumns longer than standard blank cassette lengths. If the blank is 60 minutes, (30 a side) then make the albumns 32 minutes each side. Also Cassettes generations got worse as you made copies. Cd's don't.

[hayley]

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

I ALSO worked for a record label. And they are all the same only worse now. And Haley, I am not picking on you, but the record companies are to blame when they won't promote those "amazing" records. I have seen many great things die on the vine for lack of attention by them. (Yes, there will be exceptions to these) They = record execs.

It just pisses me off that people whine about the major labels but don't try to support the independent labels and artists that are producing exactly the kind of things people are complaining about wanting. If you want a viable solution or change to this industry, then support the people who are doing it the right way. People are so passive about music- they want awesome stuff to be handed to them, and it's not going to be. It SHOULD be- the record labels do a crap job. But don't just complain about it and then not buy cds because of it, or download music, or burn cds. Support the people that are doing it the right way.

1. They don't give new artists a chance to grow anymore, they want product shoved out as fast as possible, no time is given to produce a cd with more than a couple of decent songs on it.

I do completely agree. I wish more people would use iTunes and buy the "good" songs off an album instead of the whole thing and send a message to the companies that crap albums won't do it anymore.

5. Rather than add VALUE to cds in order to gain purchasing over burning, they would rather whine. (Remember when albumns had posters and stickers...etc. I think cd's could have things added- how about band trading cards, or autographs mixed in every so many thousand? Make the boxes bigger and add stickers, or postcards, or whatever? Make the cd itself have better graphics - 3d's, holograms. How about special decoder rings? Scratch off cards for %off when you go to the concert, win free merchandise, ...Geez maybe a free coke?. A special use only once code to get more music on the web?) They can come up with something if the MUSIC itself isn't working anymore.

So many record labels ARE doing this- often times it's with bonus DVDs. Dual Disc is another new format that they're trying to use to give value to the customer- the album on one side, DVD content and 5.1 sound on the other. Giving consumers the option to get limited edition cds with extra songs, different packaging, etc. Just the other day I opened a copy of the Click 5 CD to play (sucks, btw.) and they had a trading card on the inside. Apparently there's one of each member that you can collect. They do exclusive web stuff. They're trying all the time to put value into the purchase of a CD. But at a certain point, it all gets so shtick-y to me. It's not a ****ing cereal box. It's an album. Buy it or don't. Gimmicks are lame.

7. I also blame the monopolistic radio markets. Big corps own most of the stations in major markets so a new group will almost never get airplay. If they aren't on the playlist, they aren't easily getting on.

Agreed, and I actually had wanted to address Chris's earlier point about radio and payola. What people don't understand is that if they think the record labels are shady, they should take a look at radio. Radio is driven by advertising dollars, and those advertisers want their 18-34 demographic. Really, 21-34, since a vast part of radio advertising are alcohol ads. And the radio stations play what attracts their demo. There isn't a lot of wiggle room there for breaking artists or experimentation. There's actually a decent article in the most recent issue of Blender (with Family Guy on the cover) on the death of rock radio.

8. They need to accept the world is changing and change with it. The technology is out there to imbed into files a limited use. 5 plays then it would go to a 30 sec sample, unless it is purchased.

One of the things that pisses me off the most is copy protection. RCA is copy protecting all their releases, which means that I, a legitimate user, cannot put the Kasabian, Foo Fighters, Velvet Revolver, or Kings of Leon disc on my iPod. Which means I don't listen to them like I would otherwise. Which really just screws the band and the company. There's no perfect solution for the change in technology today- a fix for one problem creates a new set of problems in another area.

9. Sure they "ride the trend" but they also keep it going and push trends that may not have survived as long as the do. (The macarana (sp) was one trend they didn't need to push...ick) Can't a trend be GOOD music on an entire cd? Or pay the artists a decent % of albumn sales? A cd liner worth looking at? ....etc.

There wasn't anything *wrong* with the Macarena, though. It was annoying, but it's not like people didn't LIKE it. It wouldn't have done well if a lot of people hadn't enjoyed being tools singing and dancing with it, just like Who Let the Dogs Out. Blame the idiots that keep it going instead of the ones who put it out in the first place.

There are plenty of CDs that are consistently good, and that are popular right now. I don't tend to like popular albums, but I can say 100% that I think the Anna Nalick record, and the Gavin Degraw album, and Gretchen Wilson's record, and Kelly Clarkson's album, are all GREAT. Every song on them. Those are four extremely popular records. What about a band like Coldplay, that's experiencing huge success now? They're not my cup of tea but they're undeniably good. I think that the quality of popular music has been on a bit of an upswing lately, and so it's just disheartening to get into arguments about it because right now it's better than it's been in sooo long. Not that that's saying much.

It is down to $$$$$$$$$. They have to accept that they can't make the same margins with the same formulas from times past.

Agreed. Really, my problem with the industry has more to do with the way record labels themselves are run, instead of what's released and promoted.

Okay off my soapbox now. (Your turn Haley )

[seeker007nmss]

GOOD POINTS! I think we are basically on the same page.

btw which corp you with? I was with RCA. (And a radio station and did record retail ... sort of saw it all back in the day)