London's Mayor Speaks Out

strandinthewind · #1 07-20-2005, 08:22 AM

and he is not scared to call a spade a spade

_______________________________________________________________________

London mayor: West fueled terror

LONDON, England (CNN) -- London Mayor Ken Livingstone has said that Western "double standards" in the Middle East have contributed to the growth of Islamic extremism and terrorist groups such as al Qaeda.

Livingstone told BBC radio on Wednesday that Western intervention in the Middle East since the end of World War I had been motivated by a desire to control the flow of oil.

While condemning suicide bombings, Livingstone indicated that he recognized the conditions that had led Palestinians to take that route in Israel.

"Under foreign occupation and denied a right to vote, denied the right to run your own affairs ... I suspect that if it had happened here in England we would have produced a lot of suicide bombers ourselves," said Livingstone.

"But I don't just denounce suicide bombers. I denounce those governments which use indiscriminate slaughter to advance their foreign policy."

But Livingstone's comments were rejected by a spokesman for British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

"The Prime Minister and Ken Livingstone have different views of the world and that remains the case," the Downing Street spokesman said.

"Equally, however, we recognize that Ken Livingstone has provided, as an elected official in London, a lead to the people of London at this tragic time -- at the same time as he expresses views which we fundamentally disagree with."

Blair told lawmakers on Wednesday that he was considering calling a global conference to discuss ways of tackling Islamic extremism following the July 7 London bombings which killed 56 people and injured hundreds more.

"We are looking at the possibility of holding a conference which would bring together some of the main countries who are ... closely involved in these issues ... to try to take concerted action right across the world to root out this kind of extremist teaching," Blair said.

After meeting Muslim leaders on Tuesday, Blair said that extremism was an "evil ideology" that needed to be confronted "by the force of reason." (Full Story)

He also told lawmakers his government was moving in the "right direction" to combat the threat of further attacks and pledged to work with opposition leader Michael Howard to introduce new anti-terror legislation.

In a briefing before parliament, Home Secretary Charles Clarke outlined three new criminal offenses at the heart of those measures.

One new provision would be to make the indirect incitement of terrorism an offense.

Another proposed offense would be acts considered preparatory to terrorism. That would enable security authorities to intervene at an earlier stage to protect the public.

A third would apply a broader definition applied to the giving and receiving of terrorist training.

CNN's European Political Editor Robin Oakley said lawmakers would consider the legislation on their return from summer recess in October and could pass the measures by December.

Speaking later to members of the London Assembly, Livingstone praised Londoners' resilience and solidarity in the aftermath of the bomb attacks.

He said the city would never concede to the threat of terrorism.

"London's communities will continue to stand together in condemnation of anyone who attacks the city," said Livingstone.

He said the city's Underground system would likely be disrupted for some time to come. Three of the four bombings occurred on tube trains.

One of the bombed carriages was lifted out of Edgware Road station Tuesday and taken to an undisclosed location for further forensic examination.

Rail operators say the station will probably remain closed for another two weeks.

Transport police said on Wednesday that sniffer dogs had been deployed on the Underground network for the first time.

"They operate just like dogs who search for drugs except they have been trained to sniff our explosives," a police spokesman told the UK's Press Association.

"They have already started patrolling the Tube with their handlers and they will carry on indefinitely."

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...cks/index.html

gldstwmn · #2 07-20-2005, 05:41 PM

I don't have a lot of time to go into this right now but he is more right on with that statement than I think he even knows.

tynan88 · #3 07-21-2005, 07:47 AM

Ken Livingstone seems like a classy leader. I remember seeing him hold a media conference on a train on the Monday after the attack which I thought was a great display, encouraging people to catch the train to work.

I totally agree too, you have to put yourself in their shoes a bit, but the way he talks sometimes, he should be wary not be charged under the new english laws they are thinking of introducing!

irishgrl · #4 07-21-2005, 08:23 AM

I abohor the fact we are so dependent upon Middle Eastern Oil, however, the Sunnis especially have profited GREATLY by our oil consumption. Frankly, since their society has NO other commodity to offer in trade on the world's stage, they NEED our dollars. As for the dichotomy between the haves and have-nots in that part of the world, that is more the fault of THEIR OWN societal makeup and not ours. The house of Saud was powerful long before petrodollars entered the picture. Im sorry but they just cant keep blaming all their troubles on the "evil west."

I also disagree with Livingstone in that I believe it really wouldnt matter to the extremists if we left their countries altogether, (or met any of their other demands) they would STILL find some reason to continue their terror tactics because their ULTIMATE aim is eradication of any who arent followers of Islam. They absolutely HATE the Jews and will NOT rest until there is NO Israel. This hatred goes all the way back to the story of Jacob (the son of Isaac's wife Sarai, and Father of the Jewish line) and Esau (the son of Sarai's handmaiden and the Father of the Arab line). On his deathbed, Isaac blessed Jacob (thinking he was Esau) and gave him control over his flocks, goods, lands as well as the right to inherit the power of patriarch over the Jews (Jacob fathered the 12 Tribes of Israel) and to receive the the blessing of God. The Arabs have raged ever since. Their hatred of Christians stems primarily from the Crusades and the fact that after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, they have been unable to keep pace with the Western World's march of technology etc. They resent everything about Western civilization, and we are ALL infidels in the minds of these extremists.

I personally believe that this fomenting hatred will eventually engulf the world in a final, horrendous struggle. I pray I am wrong, but this is what I see coming. There is hope however if the Moderate Muslims, the ones who say Islam is about PEACE, will step up and take a stand against these extremists. In truth, I believe they are the only ones who CAN make a difference. Until they face the UGLY side of their religion (as Christians have had to do) the extremists will wreak havoc unchecked.

note: Strand quoted me below before I realized I had named some of the principles incorrectly. For that, my apologies, and I believe the info in the current post is correct, and I had the essential facts correct in any event.

strandinthewind · #5 07-21-2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I abohor the fact we are so dependent upon Middle Eastern Oil, however, the Sunnis especially have profited GREATLY by our oil consumption. Frankly, since their society has NO other commodity to offer in trade on the world's stage, they NEED our dollars. As for the dichotomy between the haves and have-nots in that part of the world, that is more the fault of THEIR OWN societal makeup and not ours. The house of Saud was powerful long before petrodollars entered the picture. Im sorry but they just cant keep blaming all their troubles on the "evil west."

I also disagree with Livingstone in that I believe it really wouldnt matter to the extremists if we left their countries altogether, (or met any of their other demands) they would STILL find some reason to continue their terror tactics because their ULTIMATE aim is eradication of any who arent followers of Islam. They absolutely HATE the Jews and will NOT rest until there is NO Israel. This hatred goes all the way back to the story of Isaac (the son of Abrahams wife Sarah, and Father of the Jewish line) and Esau (the son of Sarah's handmaiden and the Father of the Arab line). On his deathbed, Abraham blessed Isaac (thinking he was Esau) and gave him control over his flocks, goods, lands as well as the right to inherit the power of patriarch over the Jews (Isaac fathered the 12 Tribes of Israel) and to receive the the blessing of God. The Arabs have raged ever since. Their hatred of Christians stems primarily from the Crusades and the fact that after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, they have been unable to keep pace with the Western World's march of technology etc. They resent everything about Western civilization, and we are ALL infidels in the minds of these extremists.

I personally believe that this fomenting hatred will eventually engulf the world in a final, horrendous struggle. I pray I am wrong, but this is what I see coming.

The only other commodity they have is the Holy Land, and much of what is going on over there has to do with that. As for "They absolutely HATE the Jews and will NOT rest until there is NO Israel" - can you blame them - I mean Israel is not exactly an innocent in all of this.

irishgrl · #6 07-21-2005, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The only other commodity they have is the Holy Land, and much of what is going on over there has to do with that. As for "They absolutely HATE the Jews and will NOT rest until there is NO Israel" - can you blame them - I mean Israel is not exactly an innocent in all of this.

Israel's "crime" is its mere existence (sp?) and the fact that they beat Syria and Egypt to the punch in the 6 days war and decimated the opposing forces before they had a chance to do that to Israel. Again, the hatred is several thousand years old and predates the modern Nation of Israel. Btw, Israel (or the Jews) has a historic claim to its place as the prophesied "promised land" and Arabs have done all they could to prevent any such occupation by Jews and were successful for quite a lengthy time as a result of the Ottoman Empire's control. The fact that Israel was allowed to form at ALL (nevermind the fact that millions of Jews had no other place to go after leaving Germany, Russia, Spain etc) has been a THORN in the Arab side...

I was going to mention the Holy Land and Muslim control of 99% of the Holy places...that concerns me greatly. I can see the day when Christians and Jews alike might be forbidden access to our Holy places....