Democrats to Filibuster Bolton

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Mari

Change UN by US and you've got the exact viewpoint of a lot of non-americans... I just noted the eerie similarity in that. Same goes for some of the other comments on the UN in this thread.

Not that I'm not open to hear criticism on the UN though. No political organisation is free of hunger for power, money etc, whether it's on country-level or above it. Such is the nature of politics.

I object strenuously to an OUTSIDE body owning even a particle of our NATIONAL Monuments, or our Public Parklands.

Personally, I dont give a RATS ASS what the rest of the world thinks They sure needed us not too long ago in WW2.... Im sick of everyone acting like America is evil personified. Regardless of what the Government does, there are a lot of GOOD people here who DONT identify with the crapola being pushed by the forces of W.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I object strenuously to an OUTSIDE body owning even a particle of our NATIONAL Monuments, or our Public Parklands.

Personally, I dont give a RATS ASS what the rest of the world thinks They sure needed us not too long ago in WW2.... Im sick of everyone acting like America is evil personified. Regardless of what the Government does, there are a lot of GOOD people here who DONT identify with the crapola being pushed by the forces of W.

Was only stating a fact, no need to explode on me! You totally miss my point! I am not talking about the American people, I'm talking about the political organization, the government.

An outside body owning national monuments, hey, I'd have a problem with that too, I suppose. Well, it depends on what body and what their plans are with it. National bodies have done some real damage (or are still doing) with nature here.

I kind of resent people draggin' WWII into these type of arguments all the time.
can I rant?
My country was actually liberated by Americans, Polish, British and Canadians. (And who knows, even other nations?) I'm grateful to all of those nations and the people of that time who were so selfeless to give their lives. But just like I'm not calling today's Germans nazis because that is pretty offensive, I don't have to feel grateful to today 's American government. Not the same people!

I don't act like "America is evil personified". There's several people living in the States I call my friends, it's ridiculous in my mind to blame them for what their current government is doing. My own goverment has done some pretty disappointing stuff over the last few years, actually, so I can sympathize.

*sigh* end rant.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I dont recall that particular discussion, I swear, I think you must preserve every argument you ever get into!



I dont have an opinion on whether the UN is responsible for the War, I dont know anything about that. What I said, as I recall, was that W had an agenda before he ever got into office, and I think Ive been vindicated on THAT as well.

as for a site, let me see:
Our National Parks now belong to UN

71 More National Heritage Sites Planned

and finally, a GRAPHIC:


Link for graphic

and another thing:
if you see this it is a clue it is a UN "World Heritage" site

I can't even begin to describe how disturbed I am by that.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Mari

Was only stating a fact, no need to explode on me! You totally miss my point! I am not talking about the American people, I'm talking about the political organization, the government.

An outside body owning national monuments, hey, I'd have a problem with that too, I suppose. Well, it depends on what body and what their plans are with it. National bodies have done some real damage (or are still doing) with nature here.

I kind of resent people draggin' WWII into these type of arguments all the time.
can I rant?
My country was actually liberated by Americans, Polish, British and Canadians. (And who knows, even other nations?) I'm grateful to all of those nations and the people of that time who were so selfeless to give their lives. But just like I'm not calling today's Germans nazis because that is pretty offensive, I don't have to feel grateful to today 's American government. Not the same people!

I don't act like "America is evil personified". There's several people living in the States I call my friends, it's ridiculous in my mind to blame them for what their current government is doing. My own goverment has done some pretty disappointing stuff over the last few years, actually, so I can sympathize.

*sigh* end rant.

well, you said non-Americans hold the same opinion about America that I hold about the UN and it just hit me wrong. I do NOT want our Statue of Liberty or half dome or the redwoods or Montecello or any other American Landmark owned or controlled by any non American PERIOD. Granted, our Government lately has only cared about exploiting our resources....still, I dont like what is going on.

As for bringing in WW2, it is a FACT that America's entry into the European arena as well as the Pacific theater made the difference in the war. The European forces up to that point werent succeeding. In the end, Im just glad that justice prevailed.

I know American business practices are heinous, I detest them. I abhor the chasing of the almighty dollar as if it were a God. I HATE the current administration and I hate the influence the wacko religious zealots are wielding. I know we are in crisis now, I grieve for our young people and the country they will inherit....for that matter, the state of the world in general (what with global warming and depleted resources everywhere and overpopulation and on and on...) Maybe you young folks can turn things around

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, you said non-Americans hold the same opinion about America that I hold about the UN and it just hit me wrong. I do NOT want our Statue of Liberty or half dome or the redwoods or Montecello or any other American Landmark owned or controlled by any non American PERIOD. Granted, our Government lately has only cared about exploiting our resources....still, I dont like what is going on . . . .

and - may I just note that we have Bill clinton to thank for it - guess he was too busy sending out his people to obstruct justice to care about our national monuments

couldn't resist

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

and - may I just note that we have Bill clinton to thank for it - guess he was too busy sending out his people to obstruct justice to care about our national monuments

couldn't resist

I saw that too....made me wanna strangle the man.......about the only thing I think he was thinking was, it would preserve the resources in a way that the forces after him couldnt touch them....in other words, maybe he thought he was doing us an environmental service of some sort............I know the enviros are ok with it, but Im not

as for sending out people to obstruct justice, Im not gonna take that bit of smelly bait you rascal

[Mari]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, you said non-Americans hold the same opinion about America that I hold about the UN and it just hit me wrong. I do NOT want our Statue of Liberty or half dome or the redwoods or Montecello or any other American Landmark owned or controlled by any non American PERIOD. Granted, our Government lately has only cared about exploiting our resources....still, I dont like what is going on.

I said, "let's change UN for US and look what it says". The similarity is still striking to me.

Wasn't talking about the issue of UN owning American landmarks... I made a separate comment about that.

As for bringing in WW2, it is a FACT that America's entry into the European arena as well as the Pacific theater made the difference in the war. The European forces up to that point werent succeeding. In the end, Im just glad that justice prevailed.

Yes, absolutely right and I never disputed it, but once again.. a figure like Bush has got nothing to do with the brave people who liberated Europe. Or what about the people who voted them? It's been 60 years. You don't hold me accountable for whatever -good or bad- my grandfather did either, or do you?
So it makes no sense at all to bring that in to these arguments.
It would -maybe- if you were thinking I hate all Americans, but that is not the case. I don't think that black & white.

I know American business practices are heinous, I detest them. I abhor the chasing of the almighty dollar as if it were a God. I HATE the current administration and I hate the influence the wacko religious zealots are wielding. I know we are in crisis now, I grieve for our young people and the country they will inherit....for that matter, the state of the world in general (what with global warming and depleted resources everywhere and overpopulation and on and on...) Maybe you young folks can turn things around

I hope so, I really do. I'll bet it will take a generation at least, though.

[irishgrl]

a figure like Bush has got nothing to do with the brave people who liberated Europe. Or what about the people who voted them? It's been 60 years. You don't hold me accountable for whatever -good or bad- my grandfather did either, or do you?

The only reason I brought in WW2 was to show that America has something GOOD it can point to, and countries all around the world STILL look to our military to defend them or protect them or to help keep the peace. As for equating that with Bush, I never did and never will. Bush is a bumbler. and the idiots that voted for him are mindless sheep who will do this world a favor by tottering quietly into old age.