Dean's in - Page 2

strandinthewind · #16 02-08-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

And even if it was a mistake, I didn't hear any outrage from the left over it. If it had been Bush, we'd never hear the end of it. But it was Clinton, so no one said a word.

I remeber people were outraged at the time

and a google of "clinton bomb chinese embassy" reveals as much

I think everyone just realized it was a horrible mistake not a calculated mistake like the war in Iraq and the falsified and tricked up intelligence. Therein is the difference to me. But, ITA Clinton was at fault for it and it was a horrible thing.

dissention · #17 02-08-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I remeber people were outraged at the time

and a google of "clinton bomb chinese embassy" reveals as much

I think everyone just realized it was a horrible mistake not a calculated mistake like the war in Iraq and the falsified and tricked up intelligence. Therein is the difference to me. But, ITA Clinton was at fault for it and it was a horrible thing.

Of course people were outraged, but were they outraged at Clinton? F*ck no. They gave him a free pass. I'm still not convinced it was a mistake, but as soon as Clinton came out and said he regretted that it happened, the lefties sat down, shut up, nodded their heads in approval, and kissed his assed. For christ's sake, the US gave four different explanations as to what happened in less than 24 hours. They couldn't keep their stories straight, so we have four wonderful tales that we could pick one from and choose to believe.

dissention · #18 02-08-2005, 11:14 AM

I went and Googled that term and this fab article came up that talks about all the different stories that were being passed off to excuse the bombing.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/ma...bomb-m10.shtml

strandinthewind · #19 02-08-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Of course people were outraged, but were they outraged at Clinton? F*ck no. They gave him a free pass. I'm still not convinced it was a mistake, but as soon as Clinton came out and said he regretted that it happened, the lefties sat down, shut up, nodded their heads in approval, and kissed his assed. For christ's sake, the US gave four different explanations as to what happened in less than 24 hours. They couldn't keep their stories straight, so we have four wonderful tales that we could pick one from and choose to believe.

Why would we intentionally bomb the Chinese Embassy in a Balkan State? It makes not sense to me.

strandinthewind · #20 02-08-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

I went and Googled that term and this fab article came up that talks about all the different stories that were being passed off to excuse the bombing.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/ma...bomb-m10.shtml

I know - but I think that was not really evidence that we intentionally bombed the Chinese Embassy. I think it was evidence that the sotry changed as more was learned.

dissention · #21 02-08-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Why would we intentionally bomb the Chinese Embassy in a Balkan State? It makes not sense to me.

Think about it. China certainly didn't have to sit and ponder that question for very long, it's pretty bloody obvious.

dissention · #22 02-08-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know - but I think that was not really evidence that we intentionally bombed the Chinese Embassy. I think it was evidence that the sotry changed as more was learned.

Did you read the whole thing in the entire two minutes since I posted it, dear?

strandinthewind · #23 02-08-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Did you read the whole thing in the entire two minutes since I posted it, dear?

I read it when it appeared as part of my google search

strandinthewind · #24 02-08-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Think about it. China certainly didn't have to sit and ponder that question for very long, it's pretty bloody obvious.

Well, let's hear it

dissention · #25 02-08-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I read it when it appeared as part of my google search

Touche.

The links at the bottom of it are good reads, too, in case you haven't read them.

dissention · #26 02-08-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, let's hear it

If you read the article, you've already heard it.

strandinthewind · #27 02-08-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

If you read the article, you've already heard it.

Silly me - I was asking for facts - none of which are asserted. But, it makes for good copy

irishgrl · #28 02-08-2005, 11:42 AM

ok now, Clinton wasnt thrilled about having to sign that Gawdawful Reform bill, but you know that the Repugs were just fresh off of a new takeover of Congress and Clinton's hands were tied. Also, there were PLENTY of Democratic groups that disagreed with it and some non-partisan groups as well...mostly from the woman/child end of things. There was quite an outcry that the poorest, most vulnerable part of our society (single, uneducated women/mothers) was being targeted. I can recall that NOW, the League of Women Voters to name a couple, were quite up in arms. One of the biggest problems was the mischaracterization of women on Welfare as "Welfare Queens," as if somehow living on the dole meant you were leading the life of Riley! I can tell you as a former Welfare Recipient during that time, its no small feat to exist on such paltry fare. And, the regular COLA's were stopped, AND the maximum benefit amounts were pared WAY down.

as for the actual reform itself, about the only GOOD thing I can say about it (and I speak as a Social Worker here) is that it stopped the practice by SOME welfare mothers of having more babies to get more $$$. It also put a lifetime cap on the amount of time you could actually receive welfare. Personally, I think the Government needs to take another look at what they consider sufficient for an Assistance Unit to live on. Especially in States where the cost of living is higher.