Source: Fingerprints of Jackson, boy on magazines

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

...

On another note, I was watching CNN yesterday morning when this broke and the news alert they had was as if Osama had been captured. And the headline was so salacious and distasteful: "Jacko's Prints Found On Porn Mags."

It scares me what passes as hard news these days. These types of alerts should be reserved for real news. On Faux I saw one of these when Ben and Jen broke up, I was like, um is that really news? Everyone saw it coming. It's celebrity nonsense and should be under "entertainment news". Blurring news and entertainment is very scary.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Not this kind of Child Molestation. I mean yeah this is bad, but this is like first class child molestation. The Child Molestors on the street who abduct and torture chilldren and molest them and occaisonally hurt and KILL them, those guys should burn.

turning 'em into a "Brigsford Charcoal Brisket" is too easy, I say we bring back the nice Christian-like "Impalement"...Hell, I would volunteer to be the new milliennium's "Vlad the Impaler" in that case

Hurt a child, lose your life...Simple as that!

Brian j.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

It scares me what passes as hard news these days. These types of alerts should be reserved for real news. On Faux I saw one of these when Ben and Jen broke up, I was like, um is that really news? Everyone saw it coming. It's celebrity nonsense and should be under "entertainment news". Blurring news and entertainment is very scary.

Money - pure and simple. This sells and it sells well. When the tide changes and the networks will as well

[GateandGarden]

Well, I guess I'm the only here who thinks there's a chance he's innocent. I know the popular opinion with the public is that he's guilty, but I've gotten to the point where the consensus means absolutely nothing to me. The porn magazine evidence seems weak, as diss already explained. To believe beyond any shadow of a doubt that he did what he has been accused of, I have to have real proof. I'm thinking I may not ever see that, though.

Not that I don't think it's weird for a grown man and a boy to share a bed. But Jacko's done lots of things that I think to be weird, and I don't assume he's a criminal. On the other hand, I know y'all aren't assuming, since there is an abundance of circumstantial evidence and he certainly has a way of saying and doing things that don't help his case.

As for the comments earlier on in the thread about the severity of his crimes (if he has committed them), I have to say that I think he should be punished severely as well, but not as severely as someone who mercilessly tortured, molested, and murdered a child. (I'm thinking that should be obvious). I just don't agree with the assertion that he may have done the worst thing that one can do, because of the scenario I just mentioned. But I don't mean to downplay the harm in manipulating a child into trusting you and then betraying him or her in that way. As someone already said, that will follow a child around his or her entire life.

But am I the only who thinks it's very likely that there's something very wrong with this guy, mentally?

Hillary

[amber]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

But am I the only who thinks it's very likely that there's something very wrong with this guy, mentally?

Hillary

No. I think they should've busted out an insanity defense. I mean, that guy is CRAZY. And, I think there is much more evidence then we are privy to, as intimated by the police who originally obtained warrant to search Jacko's ranch. You don't get a warrant like that, for someone that famous and rich, based on little or nothing, i tell you what.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

But am I the only who thinks it's very likely that there's something very wrong with this guy, mentally?

Hillary

he's definitely a sad pathetic & mentally messed up person...

Do I think he's guilty or innocent? Who cares...I am sick about hearing about him everyday on the news (Which nowadays is as entertaining as having yer wisdom teeth yanked out without anesthetic)

What next, Michael's camp says it was Bigfoot's hand print on the porn mag, Not the noseless wonders, that was sent down from JFK's U.F.O. that the FBI created to frame him to get the media's mind off of OBL & Iraq???

Brian j.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

No. I think they should've busted out an insanity defense. I mean, that guy is CRAZY. And, I think there is much more evidence then we are privy to, as intimated by the police who originally obtained warrant to search Jacko's ranch. You don't get a warrant like that, for someone that famous and rich, based on little or nothing, i tell you what.

For any insanity offense to work, it would have to be demonstrated by the defense that Jackson's mental problems prohibited him from being able to tell what is right and what is wrong or some other similar test. That will be very hard to prove in this case because of all of the deception Jackson has been involved with.

[BTFLCHLD]

13 months later the revelation of prints on a mag

I disagree in that MJ will be "forced" to take the stand to defend himself on this evidence...it can and most likely will be refuted by his lawyer and any number of consp theorists without testimony from MJ

For example, this scenario of how the prints surfaced:
Officer handing mag to def, "have you seen this?"
Officer handing mag to vict, "have you seen this?"
Of course... "they" are never this sloppy

As always I will reserve my personal "verdict" until the trial and evidence is revealed.

As I typed earlier, IMO, anyone who is guilty of causing harm to a child, the punishment should be severe.

IMO, should he be found not guilty of these specific charges, by MJ's own admission of "sleeping" with children, that is enough to warrant some sort of stipulation (e.g. no association with children under 18.) So fin what if he has to go to bed without his milk and cookies!

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

For any insanity offense to work, it would have to be demonstrated by the defense that Jackson's mental problems prohibited him from being able to tell what is right and what is wrong or some other similar test. That will be very hard to prove in this case because of all of the deception Jackson has been involved with.

yeah, i figured that. I'm sure that wouldn't work (although, i think maybe his mental problems do prohibit that ) but i do think he is very crazy. Great. I'm taking a break from writing my big law paper (with oral report, six o'clock tonight!) to talk about law...

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Money - pure and simple. This sells and it sells well. When the tide changes and the networks will as well

That's interesting because it makes me change the channel so as not to fill my head with drivel I bet a lot of people are tired of it. The network news is already bad enough, now there's "too much" flu vaccine in some places, isn't that supposed to be good? What passes for news astounds me.

As companies keep doing things just for the money they are going to self-implode. There has to be a quality product being sold or it will eventually be rejected. The shocking headlines are no longer shocking. Maybe a thoughtful story would catch people's interest now, "Hey look, that's different."

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Well, I guess I'm the only here who thinks there's a chance he's innocent.

1. Instead of proving that the first boys allegations were "lies," he paid him off from anywhere between $15-$30 million. I don't know about you, but if I was accused of a crime that was baseless and couldn't be proven, I certainly wouldn't pony up five cents, let alone tens of millions.

2. The first boy to publicly accuse him of molestation knew of and described in great detail the marks on Jackson's genitals. When Jackson was stripped by police, the marks described by the boy were coroborrated.

3. Jackson's bedroom is rigged so that if anyone comes near it, doors lock and alarms go off.

4. A secret storage closet filled with unmarked videotapes was made public when one of Jackson's employees shot a video of the house and leaked it to the media. The closet and the tapes mysteriously disappeared shortly thereafter.

5. He admits to sleeping in the same bed as children.

6. Some of his old business associates have come forward and claimed to have seen him slip alcohol to young boys.

7. Even though he claims to have such a great love for children, he never seems to have any little girls around...

There's more where those came from.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

That's interesting because it makes me change the channel so as not to fill my head with drivel I bet a lot of people are tired of it. The network news is already bad enough, now there's "too much" flu vaccine in some places, isn't that supposed to be good? What passes for news astounds me.

As companies keep doing things just for the money they are going to self-implode. There has to be a quality product being sold or it will eventually be rejected. The shocking headlines are no longer shocking. Maybe a thoughtful story would catch people's interest now, "Hey look, that's different."

I think the ratings support them. I think the people that get the J-Lo and Ben interview get the ratings boosts. I also think the networks know they do not have to take any risk by branching out into something new. They can recognize and follow trends almost immediately these days Finally, I do think the main media does report the headline political news. I know they are lambasted for not reporting what many think is relevant in situations like the Iraq War, but they do report on the war and most of the stuff happening there. I mean no one buried the prosoner abuse story, etc. That all saw the light of day - granted not enough for some people and I am not about to get in that argument again So, I think the media presents things like J'Lo, etc. because the majority of the people want to see it and I think the presentation of this does not significantly get in the way of presenting the major political, etc. news. I also think the advent of the 24hr. news channels gave them FAR more time to fill - but Liz and Ruchard certainly made headlines in the 60's WAY before the dawm of cable news networks

Anyway - foor for thought!!

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

1. Instead of proving that the first boys allegations were "lies," he paid him off from anywhere between $15-$30 million. I don't know about you, but if I was accused of a crime that was baseless and couldn't be proven, I certainly wouldn't pony up five cents, let alone tens of millions.

2. The first boy to publicly accuse him of molestation knew of and described in great detail the marks on Jackson's genitals. When Jackson was stripped by police, the marks described by the boy were coroborrated.

3. Jackson's bedroom is rigged so that if anyone comes near it, doors lock and alarms go off.

4. A secret storage closet filled with unmarked videotapes was made public when one of Jackson's employees shot a video of the house and leaked it to the media. The closet and the tapes mysteriously disappeared shortly thereafter.

5. He admits to sleeping in the same bed as children.

6. Some of his old business associates have come forward and claimed to have seen him slip alcohol to young boys.

7. Even though he claims to have such a great love for children, he never seems to have any little girls around...

There's more where those came from.

Yipes! And there we have part of the masses of evidence i was referring to!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think the ratings support them. I think the people that get the J-Lo and Ben interview get the ratings boosts. I also think the networks know they do not have to take any risk by branching out into something new. They can recognize and follow trends almost immediately these days Finally, I do think the main media does report the headline political news. I know they are lambasted for not reporting what many think is relevant in situations like the Iraq War, but they do report on the war and most of the stuff happening there. I mean no one buried the prosoner abuse story, etc. That all saw the light of day - granted not enough for some people and I am not about to get in that argument again So, I think the media presents things like J'Lo, etc. because the majority of the people want to see it and I think the presentation of this does not significantly get in the way of presenting the major political, etc. news. I also think the advent of the 24hr. news channels gave them FAR more time to fill - but Liz and Ruchard certainly made headlines in the 60's WAY before the dawm of cable news networks

Anyway - foor for thought!!

That reminds me.

I was watching TV Land's "100 Greatest Television Moments" while I was wrapping presents over the weekend and Leslie Stahl cracked my ass up (and I love Leslie Stahl). One of the moments was the "wardrobe malfunction" and she said "That's all the news talked about for days, for weeks. Nevermind that there's a war in Iraq that needs coverage." She said in such a deadpan, dry way that it reminded me of Bea Arthur.

[strandinthewind]

Just to play devil's advocate


1. Instead of proving that the first boys allegations were "lies," he paid him off from anywhere between $15-$30 million. I don't know about you, but if I was accused of a crime that was baseless and couldn't be proven, I certainly wouldn't pony up five cents, let alone tens of millions.

True - but lawsuits are settled everyday and back then, that $$$ was not that relevant to him - it would have been like most people paying $1,000 or so. Also, the legal fees for Jackson would easily have been $10 million and there is chance he may not have won due to disfavorable public opinion. So, this is not that relevant.

2. The first boy to publicly accuse him of molestation knew of and described in great detail the marks on Jackson's genitals. When Jackson was stripped by police, the marks described by the boy were coroborrated.

Anyone of Jackson's personal servants could have seen these markings and passsed them on for $$$$$$$. I mean much info. about celebrities is bought from their help. So, why should this be any different. Also, the kid could have spied on Jackson at the bequest of his parents in an attempt to export Jackson.

3. Jackson's bedroom is rigged so that if anyone comes near it, doors lock and alarms go off.

Many rich people have these types of panic rooms. This is not that out of the ordinary in their world even if it is to us.

4. A secret storage closet filled with unmarked videotapes was made public when one of Jackson's employees shot a video of the house and leaked it to the media. The closet and the tapes mysteriously disappeared shortly thereafter.

Nothing illegal of of ped. nature has ever been proven to be on those tapes. They could have been work product and he moved them and the closet after he discovered the sotrage place had been disposed of. Also, if he had tapes of all of these children (and according to that there were a bunch of tapes) - wouldn't at least ONE of them be coming forward None have. That is strange
5. He admits to sleeping in the same bed as children.

6. Some of his old business associates have come forward and claimed to have seen him slip alcohol to young boys.

Perhaps true - but none of that has been proven. AND - weren't some of these people disgruntaled Again, where are these kids? Certainly if it happened in the quantity that suggests, at least one of them would be coming forward

7. Even though he claims to have such a great love for children, he never seems to have any little girls around...

That is not exactly true. He has little girls and boys over there based on the pics. I have seen.

Thus, I think other than the genetalia markings, the rest are of no damning nature. The fingerprints on the porn are far more damning.

In any event and no matter the evidence, he will be convicted without a doubt in my mind based on what I have seen.