My Thoughts On The Next Four Years

[ontheEdgeof17]

All I have to say is that there better be tons of 'Mac/solo material coming our way to keep our minds off things for the next 4 years.

Tour in:

'05! (Liddy solo)
'06! (Stevie solo)
'07! ('Mac)
'08! ('Mac)

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

All I have to say is that there better be tons of 'Mac/solo material coming our way to keep our minds off things for the next 4 years.

Tour in:

'05! (Liddy solo)
'06! (Stevie solo)
'07! ('Mac)
'08! ('Mac)

Preech it Brother Curtis

[hypnotized]

Bush has become too cocky and power drunk. I foresee a scenario where Dubya will make an errr in judgement so grave it will result in his impeachment.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by hypnotized

Bush has become too cocky and power drunk. I foresee a scenario where Dubya will make an errr in judgement so grave it will result in his impeachment.

Are you suggesting we send Monica to the whiote house to stir things up for Bush

[DeeGeMe]

Reality check time here--Shrub gave basically the same speech after the 2000 election and promised to heal our country, and I think we all know how that turned out.

On the bright side, think about the last several two-term presidents--something always came up in that last term to haunt them.

Nixon--Watergate
Reagan-Iran/Contra
Clinton-Monica

[blinker12]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I don't want to unite with his lying ass. In fact, I am now more committed than ever to fighting him every single step of the way. Under no circumstances will I support this presidency.

Right. And more than just fighting *against* Bush, we must continue to fight *for* what we believe.

[DeeGeMe]

Originally Posted by larg

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old. Adam R.

Oh--and one more thing--I'm not going to "get over it". And I know before the next four years end, you'll be the one doing the complaining when you see what this president's right-wing, extremist agenda will do to further tear this country down and further apart.

[AliP]

Thanks Adam R.!! That was one of the most well thought out and insightful posts I've read in a long time.


Ali
(And for the record I am not a Republican..or a Democrat for that matter)

[AliP]

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

Oh--and one more thing--I'm not going to "get over it". And I know before the next four years end, you'll be the one doing the complaining when you see what this president's right-wing, extremist agenda will do to further tear this country down and further apart.

*Sigh*

I really thought Adam's post would make people think a little bit about how they respond to other's who don't have the same 'beliefs' as the majority on this board.

Nothing ever changes.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by larg

All I can say is....

Adam... I think I can say, without seeming to be immodest, that I tend to be one of the more optimistic people around. Check out this thread, and I think you'll see that.

Still, I have a hard time seeing how the one, maybe two things that Bush has done correctly are worthy of praise, in comparison to the myriad things he has botched.

You said you feel he's "done the best that any mortal human being can do," and you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully, and whole-heartedly, disagree.
I think there are plenty of men and women who could have and would have done a markedly better job than Bush has.

And maybe it's terribly naive of me, but I still have a very difficult time understanding the mind-set of people (friends even) who tell me with utmost sincerity that they support same-sex marriage and gay rights, but that they're a Bush-supporter.
Yes, I realize that John Kerry also said that he doesn't believe in same-sex marriage... a fact that I was not happy with... but, unlike President Bush, Kerry wasn't actively seeking, as Bush has, to take back some of the rights we ALREADY have, nor was he actively seeking, as Bush has, to amend the constitution to forever ban homosexuals from marrying. Thus forever sealing our fates in this country.

That's the difference between the two candidates. I can't stress this enough though... I never claimed to agree with John Kerry on all issues. I think it's impossible to agree with any politician 100%. But I felt very strongly that he would have been a better leader for this country, than George W.

And the issue of gay rights may seem like a trivial matter to some, but for some of us it has tantamount importance in our lives.

I am deeply disappointed that Bush won, and I'm angry that the country I have so much faith in once again put their faith in a man who's done little more than divide us.

In fact, I was so angry that he won... and the reasons why he won... that I didn't sleep at all last night, and was a miserable S.O.B. for the better part of today.

But I don't like living without hope... so I reminded myself that it's always darkest before the dawn, and I started hoping that this is as dark as things are going to get.
And, yeah, I imagine I'm desperately clinging to that right now.

I'm glad you don't think things are bleak. I honestly am. And I hope to have that feeling myself someday.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by AliP

*Sigh*

I really thought Adam's post would make people think a little bit about how they respond to other's who don't have the same 'beliefs' as the majority on this board.

Nothing ever changes.

I understand where you're coming from, Ali, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want and need to express their disappointment right now.

Even for those of us trying to hold onto a glimmer of optimism, there's no way we can't help but be disappointed.
It's been a long, heated battle, that we, obviously, felt very strongly about. I don't think we can be expected to just say, "oh, we lost and you won -- no biggie."
It's not a card game or Hide-N-Seek. For many of us, the outcome of this election has the potential to deeply impact our lives. With an extreme conservative in the White House, and the GOP controlling a ruling majority in all branches of the government, there is the possiblity that laws will be made (and rights denied) which will effect many of us for years to come. Potentially forevermore.

I don't expect everyone to share my beliefs... but I guess I do expect people to be a little more compassionate towards me and people like me, since I extend that same compassion towards others.

[Hawkeye]

I spent the whole year before the election being undecided. And I was kind of undecided yesterday, and now one day AFTER the elecetion I've finally come to the conclusion that I wish Kerry had one. The way he kicked Bush's ass in the election, just everythign about him, I'm going to miss him now, and before today I didn't realize this. It's a little late now, but this is weird.

[strandinthewind]

Oh damnit - I just cannot resist - so here goes:

Originally Posted by larg

All I can say is, I hope all of the Democrats on here can get over their losing this time faster than they did last time (So basically, any time withing the next four years) because it's really tiring listening to you all complain about how your candidate lost and shouldn't have and how Bush is so terrible. It gets old.

The assessment of the ballots in all of Florida clearly indicate W lost Florida last time, no matter how Gore chose to wage the struggle there. So, you are wrong on this point - if you know better - let's see the proof.

Originally Posted by larg

.

Open your eyes and look at some of the things that he's done that AREN'T so bad... Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President; but he has a very hard job, one I wouldn't want, and I think that he's done the best that any mortal human being can do. Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president... we have no way of knowing now. I'm just asking that all of you, rather than miserably "suffering" through the next four years, try to look at Bush in a more positive light. He's done some pretty good things; he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons. Read some things by the philosopher Hallie some day and you'll begin to understand that sometimes we have to look at the product, not the means, to judge a person)[/QUOTE]

I guess the parents of the American sons and daughters that were killed can take comfort in that - not to mention the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's we slaughtered in our mistaken process. I am sure you would take comfort in W's retro fit reasoning if your son or daughter died fighting in a war we did not have to fight, esp. when W swore he would go to war only as a last resort and only if the US was in immediate danger, both of which were not met.

Originally Posted by larg

he's helped make it more difficult for women to use abortion to EXCESSION (that is, he's prevented women from having more than one or two abortions-- I know at least two people who have had in the abortions DOUBLE DIGIT numbers, and this prevents them from that ability; they now have children, yes, but they also regret their past ways because of having children and the abortions becomming difficult. Not to mention they both have various internal problems that are excrutiatingly painful due to abortions

Exactly how has W done this? And - if he has, how has it not made it more difficult for a one abortion kind of girl to get one. What makes the second one more difficult than the first. I must have missed that legislation. Som again, I submit you are flat out wrong here and look forward to seeing the facts you come up with to support this tripe.

Originally Posted by larg

and he's created programs that make it possible for me, a 3rd class 18 year old white male who was a straight A student through high school go to a good college and NOT be paying out of my ears for the rest of my life.

What program is this? I have not heard of a federal program that allows for this. But, I do not know everything (contrary to my own high opinion of myself ) BUT, if he did do this, great - it is a feather in his hat. But, I am interested to know exactly what Federal program you are referring to.

Originally Posted by larg

I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has?

Because Clinton's lying and obstruction, while bad and certainly not overlooked by me, never killed anyone much less 1,000's of our soldiers, it never screwed the education system, economy, and environment. That is why.

Originally Posted by larg

Besides, don't you think we could get more allies in this war we're in if people in other countries saw that we SUPPORT our president?
Please take time to consider what I've said, because I've tried to be polite and intelligent about this all, and its stuff I've been wanting to say for quite some time. I've dealt with all the democrat stuff here with a pinch of salt, the anti-Bush remarks that are undying, the sometimes crude and offensive images that tag posts, and the sometimes ignorant things people say here. I don't see how you all think you are so great, when you daily call republicans stupid, greedy and any other list of mean names. Seems to me sometimes like you are a bunch of kindergarteners who need depserately to grow up.
Finally, I wish to thank all of you who DO act respectively in all of this pish posh. It's refreshing to see that there are people in the world who can accept my views and my right to my opinions, even if they disagree. I can accept yours. Maybe you should try my method sometime; you'll find yourself surrounded by more friends because of it, as well as in some very interesting conversations that in the past were either one sided or formed as crude attacks.
One final thing, even though I am republican, I admit, I AM pro-same-sex marriage. It IS about love, after all, although I do agree it would be a type of desecration to the Christian religion to have Christian same-sex marriages, although I see no reason why two lovers cannot wed technically and have it acknowledged by our country. So my heart does go out to all of you who feel you have lost hope. Although maybe being a Mainer I'm ignorant, so please fill me in; why do you believe it's less likely to ever see such a law now with Bush? Wasn't Kerry ALSO against same-sex marriages? Forgive me for being confused.
Thank you all for taking the time to listen to me, and any rude comments made by people who say I'm dumb or ignorant, expect a letter from me personally trying to prove other wise. If there's one thing I hate, its people who think they are better than someone else simply because they have a different opinion.
God bless you all and the beautiful country we live in that TRULY gives US the choice to make these decisions.
Do you think Sadam or Bin Laden were elected by the people?
That's what makes this country fantastic.
Please don't forget that.


Adam R.

The reason why is that your rights as presumably a white straight Christian male are not in danger. If you are that, then you are W's dream consituent. So, go ahead and vote for him and worship at his alter while listening to his lies. Just do not expect others to agree with you when they are being trampled upon in the name of W and therefore in his eyes the name of God.

Finally, I cannot believe you even thought anyone could talk about this on any rationale level after Kerry's defeat this morning. I think you posted this to bait people. But, I am not inside your head, etc. So, I guess you did not, but it is awfully suspect

[Hawkeye]

Quote:
Originally Posted by larg
I respect the things he's done. If you democrats can ignore Clinton's oral sex affair AND his lying to the country, why can't you look past the couple of flaws our President has?

Because Clinton's lying and obstruction, while bad, never killed anyone much less 1,000's of our soldiers, it never screwed the education system, economy, and environment. That is why.

AHHHHHH how can you compare lying about Oral Sex to how Bush lied. Sorry larg but that is an awful argument. Clinton could've ****ed Monica and her chinese stepmother all the while Al Gore was videotapping and seriously WHO CARES, it has nothing to do with us!

Finally, I cannot believe you even thought anyone could talk about this on any rationale level after Kerry's defeat this morning. I think you posted this to bait people. But, I am not inside your head, etc.

I disagree here with you Strand. I definitely don;t think LArg would do that from his lengthy posting history at the Legacy


And lastly Strand, where was all this Ant-Bush Super Pro Kerry attitude during the whole campaighn. You always seem to really to go either way, and now you seem madder then Dissention/

[Sugar]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I understand where you're coming from, Ali, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want and need to express their disappointment right now.

Even for those of us trying to hold onto a glimmer of optimism, there's no way we can't help but be disappointed.
It's been a long, heated battle, that we, obviously, felt very strongly about. I don't think we can be expected to just say, "oh, we lost and you won -- no biggie."
It's not a card game or Hide-N-Seek. For many of us, the outcome of this election has the potential to deeply impact our lives. With an extreme conservative in the White House, and the GOP controlling a ruling majority in all branches of the government, there is the possiblity that laws will be made (and rights denied) which will effect many of us for years to come. Potentially forevermore.

I don't expect everyone to share my beliefs... but I guess I do expect people to be a little more compassionate towards me and people like me, since I extend that same compassion towards others.

As always, well said, Johnny.

I would like to add that I'm a little tired of people accusing those of us who don't support Bush of whining because "our guy lost". It's so much more than that. Many of us are scared to death about Bush's cavilier agenda and what it will mean for us regular people.

Even Republican larg said:
" Not that I'm saying the man is a genius or anything, and I agree he hasn't been the best President"
"Maybe John Kerry WOULD be a better president"
"he took an evil dictator out of power (even if it was for his own, selfish and bad reasons"

When did this become acceptable in a president? Why do we gleefully accept so little from Bush?

And Clinton's lie didn't callously disregard the lives of thousands of people...

And as thoughtful as your post is larg, that is decidedly NOT what Bush presents. He moves forward with a "Screw y'all" attitude, talking like a schoolyard bully, not like I IMAGINE the leader of the free world should.

I've given Bush chances...I waited for some great FDR-like words to come from him after 9/11. Didn't happen. All we got was some spagetti-western dialog.

After the WMD debacle I wanted some acknowledgment that mistakes were made, maybe some assurance it wouldn't happen again, even a "I know this isn't the way we wanted it, but we're still doing the right thing," kind of attitude. But he didn't he shifted the focus like a child caught in a lie.

This isn't a game to most of us. This isn't a contest. This is all too real.