Meryl Streep

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Meryl is a true talent - maybe the best actor alive. I just bought Stuck On You & watched her restaurant scene last night.

There are definitely more depressing movies than Sophie's Choice, IMO. Playing For Time comes to mind. At least there's love at the end of SC.

BTW, I did not see the roast of her that aired recently.

- Jake

Sorry, Sophie and Nathan committing suicide after she's just admitted that she offered up her own child to be sacrificed at a concentration camp isn't love; their whole relationship was based upon desperation rather than love. I think it's the most depressing thing I've ever seen and I've seen Requiem For A Dream.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

My mom read the book before the movie came out & told me what the choice was, so I knew before I saw the movie. Really, the movie is about several of her choices.
BTW, Gloria Steinem wrote a stinging diatribe against the book as sexist trash years ago.

- Jake

I had seen the movie before I read the book and it was one of the most disturbing things I had ever seen. The book, however, was better because it went into a lot more depth about Nathan. In the movie, he really is just a stock character, whereas in the book he plays a much bigger role and his relationship with Sophie is way more fleshed out. If I have one complaint about the movie, it's that they did a very poor job of portraying their relationship. The final scene is also much better in the book, there's more dread and an 'Is this really happening?' feeling.

As for Gloria Steinem, everyhting she said during the 70s went out the window when she got married. Talk about your hypocrites.

[dissention]

Playing For Time is on video, but it's quite hard to find. We watched it in history class when I was in high school and Jake's right, it is a powerful film. Vanessa Redgrave was so good that I can't even describe it. The Germans in that film infuriated me moreso than in any other Holocaust movie. My grandmother taped it when it was on HBO back in the 80s and I have it here somewhere.

It's for sale at Amazon for $30:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=video

[Patti]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Such flattery! Keep it to yourself. I have my reputation to downhold.
Let me know what you think of the film. It's almost about twenty-five years old by now but I think it probably holds up well. For a color film it really captures the bleakness of the landscape.
BTW, in case you don't know, it stars Vanessa Redgrave (remember the controversy?), Jane Alexander, and the actress who played Michael's cousin on Thirtysomething.

- Jake

Ah! I DO remember the Vaness Redgrave controversy, even though I never saw the movie. I'm on a mission....

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

Sorry, Sophie and Nathan committing suicide after she's just admitted that she offered up her own child to be sacrificed at a concentration camp isn't love; their whole relationship was based upon desperation rather than love. I think it's the most depressing thing I've ever seen and I've seen Requiem For A Dream.

Gee, spoil the ending for people, why don't you.
I think there was love there. I'm certainly not romanticizing suicide, but there was love between these characters.

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

I had seen the movie before I read the book and it was one of the most disturbing things I had ever seen. The book, however, was better because it went into a lot more depth about Nathan. In the movie, he really is just a stock character, whereas in the book he plays a much bigger role and his relationship with Sophie is way more fleshed out. If I have one complaint about the movie, it's that they did a very poor job of portraying their relationship. The final scene is also much better in the book, there's more dread and an 'Is this really happening?' feeling.

As for Gloria Steinem, everyhting she said during the 70s went out the window when she got married. Talk about your hypocrites.

I thought the movie ending was a bit weak, but I didn't see it until a couple of years ago, so maybe it had more power on its release.

I don't agree with everything Gloria said or says, but peopl's opinions do change as they grow. I wouldn't dismiss everything she said for a decade just because she had a change of heart.

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

Playing For Time is on video, but it's quite hard to find. We watched it in history class when I was in high school and Jake's right, it is a powerful film. Vanessa Redgrave was so good that I can't even describe it. The Germans in that film infuriated me moreso than in any other Holocaust movie. My grandmother taped it when it was on HBO back in the 80s and I have it here somewhere.

It's for sale at Amazon for $30:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=video

When you mentioned being infurioriated, I flahed on seeing the baby scene and the choose your friend scene in Escape From Sobibor a few months ago. Not as good of a film, but those parts were horrific.

Vanessa Redgrave is an amazing actress, & Jane Alexander is also great in PFT.

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Gee, spoil the ending for people, why don't you.
I think there was love there. I'm certainly not romanticizing suicide, but there was love between these characters.

- Jake

It's a 22 year old movie, if they haven't seen it by now, f*ck 'em.

I think there was a love there, but I don't think it was as passionate a love affair as they thought it was. They loved and cared about each other because of need and lonliness, not because they were soulmates. They were both heavily messed up and stayed together out of desperation and loyalty.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

I thought the movie ending was a bit weak, but I didn't see it until a couple of years ago, so maybe it had more power on its release.

I don't agree with everything Gloria said or says, but peopl's opinions do change as they grow. I wouldn't dismiss everything she said for a decade just because she had a change of heart.

- Jake

The ending was quite weak in the movie, I've always disliked it.

The fact that Gloria dismissed almost everything she said speaks volumes, my dear. I mean, she went overboard for overboard's sake. "An act of penetration is an act of rape" and all; she didn't even believe half the stuff she said.

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

It's a 22 year old movie, if they haven't seen it by now, f*ck 'em.

I think there was a love there, but I don't think it was as passionate a love affair as they thought it was. They loved and cared about each other because of need and lonliness, not because they were soulmates. They were both heavily messed up and stayed together out of desperation and loyalty.

I can't say I necessarily agree based on the movie. I'm guessing that the book gave you extra insights, but based on the movie alone the love seemed pretty passionate.

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

When you mentioned being infurioriated, I flahed on seeing the baby scene and the choose your friend scene in Escape From Sobibor a few months ago. Not as good of a film, but those parts were horrific.

Vanessa Redgrave is an amazing actress, & Jane Alexander is also great in PFT.

- Jake

I didn't see that one. I'll look it up on the IMDB to see more about it.

Vanessa Redgrave is fantastic. Her books were great, too; she got pretty in-depth about her support for Palestine and the effect it had on her career.

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

The ending was quite weak in the movie, I've always disliked it.

The fact that Gloria dismissed almost everything she said speaks volumes, my dear. I mean, she went overboard for overboard's sake. "An act of penetration is an act of rape" and all; she didn't even believe half the stuff she said.

I don't think it was for overboard's sake, there was a greater goal. I think it was the great Gerda Lerner who said (or maybe she just quoted somebody else) that when a scale has long been tipped far in favor of one side, you've got to press down hard on the other side to get the fastest balance. Like any movement, feminism evolves over time, and the leaders are not stagnant either.

- Jake

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

I can't say I necessarily agree based on the movie. I'm guessing that the book gave you extra insights, but based on the movie alone the love seemed pretty passionate.

- Jake

I thought the movie exemplified that aspect of their relationship, albeit a bit less than in the book. But, I guess it is up to interpretation.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

I don't think it was for overboard's sake, there was a greater goal. I think it was the great Gerda Lerner who said (or maybe she just quoted somebody else) that when a scale has long been tipped far in favor of one side, you've got to press down hard on the other side to get the fastest balance. Like any movement, feminism evolves over time, and the leaders are not stagnant either.

- Jake

And I don't disagree. But Gloria Steinem, for the most part, exploited other women to advance her "cause," the very same cause that she called "over the top" as late as 2000. Look what she did to Linda Lovelace and others like her; she used them for all the publicity she could get, made some ridiculous comments when the media showed up, and then threw the women away like they were yesterdays garbage. She championed feminism, but became what she supposedly despised in the process.

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

And I don't disagree. But Gloria Steinem, for the most part, exploited other women to advance her "cause," the very same cause that she called "over the top" as late as 2000. Look what she did to Linda Lovelace and others like her; she used them for all the publicity she could get, made some ridiculous comments when the media showed up, and then threw the women away like they were yesterdays garbage. She championed feminism, but became what she supposedly despised in the process.

I think this is an unfair assessment. Gloria championed Linda at a time when many people were inclined to bash her. And I hardly think she threw women away like garbage. I do not always agree with Gloria's opinions, but I would not call her a user.

- Jake