Ashcroft: Contempt Of Congress?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Lisa1769

I know this won't get me any brownie points. I come across this tonight & thought I couldn't have said it better myself.

It's people like you who will perpetuate this war. People who think like you do will destroy us.

Edit: OK, I saw this later:

I'm sorry. I hope my apologies are accepted, they are sincere.

That's swell, but the thinking remains, doesn't it? Why would you post it in the first place if you didn't agree with it?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

To this day, various atrocities are carried out in the name of Christianity.

No, no, no, Johnny. It's about love.

[wondergirl9847]

Not all Christians (well, REAL one's, not KKK members, racists, etc...) are nutballs, just like not all Muslims are, not all Jews are, etc. We are the HUMAN RACE, we are all faulty, yes, even Mother Teresa, Billy Graham and the Pope.

Please, don't generalize.

It's like when someone is robbed by a black person and then go "I hate all blacks, they are nothing but criminals!" That's absurd!!

[gldstwmn]

I don't believe in censorship but let me tell you something lady. It's a damn good thing I didn't wake up here this morning a find a photograph of Nicholas Berg's severed head in my thread. In case you didn't read it, the title of this thread is whether or not General Ashcroft was in Contempt Of Congress. The Padilla case is directly related to this discussion. There are those of us who have chosen for our own personal reasons not to watch the videos or see the pictures. There are also children who surf these pages. It is extremely unfair of you to hijack my thread with your sensationalistic photographs, which are in this instance only meant to evoke a passionate response from anyone who sees them.
You might be well served to do some reading on the circumstances of Mr. Berg's death, they are highly suspicious.
If you want to debate who is running for office in this country or who wants to run it, great. Do so with your own words.
As for the 9/11 phtographs in your post, they do no justice to the victims or the survivors. TAKE THEM DOWN NOW. The American people don't even know the tip of the iceberg of the events of 9/11. Why, you ask? Because our government won't tell us. The "Christian " Bush administration has stonewalled every step of the way.
As far as your sweeping generalization of Islam, it's bigoted. Cat Stevens and Muhammad Ali are Islamic converts among many others. Want to tell them their religion is bull****?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Not all Christians (well, REAL one's, not KKK members, racists, etc...) are nutballs, just like not all Muslims are, not all Jews are, etc. We are the HUMAN RACE, we are all faulty, yes, even Mother Teresa, Billy Graham and the Pope.

Please, don't generalize.

It's like when someone is robbed by a black person and then go "I hate all blacks, they are nothing but criminals!" That's absurd!!

ITA - if my post came of fthat way, I apologize.

I must say, however, during the crusades and such, the official policy of the RCC, which was the extent of Christiandom, was such. However, that was a LONG time ago and the RCC was a ruling power. It has changed - and thnk goodness.

[wondergirl9847]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

ITA - if my post came of fthat way, I apologize.

I must say, however, during the crusades and such, the official policy of the RCC, which was the extent of Christiandom, was such. However, that was a LONG time ago and the RCC was a ruling power. It has changed - and thnk goodness.

I was just venting in general. LOL It just peeves me off when people generalize races, religions, etc. because of "bad people".

[Lisa1769]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I don't believe in censorship but let me tell you something lady. It's a damn good thing I didn't wake up here this morning a find a photograph of Nicholas Berg's severed head in my thread. In case you didn't read it, the title of this thread is whether or not General Ashcroft was in Contempt Of Congress. The Padilla case is directly related to this discussion. There are those of us who have chosen for our own personal reasons not to watch the videos or see the pictures. There are also children who surf these pages. It is extremely unfair of you to hijack my thread with your sensationalistic photographs, which are in this instance only meant to evoke a passionate response from anyone who sees them.
You might be well served to do some reading on the circumstances of Mr. Berg's death, they are highly circumspect.
If you want to debate who is running for office in this country or who wants to run it, great. Do so with your own words.
As for the 9/11 phtographs in your post, they do no justice to the victims or the survivors. TAKE THEM DOWN NOW. The American people don't even know the tip of the iceberg of the events of 9/11. Why, you ask? Because our government won't tell us. The "Christian " Bush administration has stonewalled every step of the way.
As far as your sweeping generalization of Islam, it's bigoted. Cat Stevens and Muhammad Ali are Islamic converts among many others. Want to tell them their religion is bull****?

Blah...Blah...Blah...

You've just repeated everything that has already been said. I apologized for the lack of respect I showed. I wholeheartedly meant it. Seems some just cannot accept a persons apology without first taking a dig....hmmm.

Sorry for hijacking YOUR thread. What was I thinking?? These threads never veer off in a different direction, do they??

I will delete my post entirely so no one else will be offended.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lisa1769

Blah...Blah...Blah...

You've just repeated everything that has already been said. I apologized for the lack of respect I showed. I wholeheartedly meant it. Seems some just cannot accept a persons apology without first taking a dig....hmmm.

Sorry for hijacking YOUR thread. What was I thinking?? These threads never veer off in a different direction, do they??

I will delete my post entirely so no one else will be offended.

I didn't ask for an apology, nor do I want one that is insincere. You apoligize out of duty, not remorse.
You're right, this is MY thread. If you want to start your own thread and spread the hate, who's stopping you? The Arabs?
I do extend a sincere thank you for deleting your post.

[Lisa1769]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I didn't ask for an apology, nor do I want one that is insincere. You apoligize out of duty, not remorse.
You're right, this is MY thread. If you want to start your own thread and spread the hate, who's stopping you? The Arabs?
I do extend a sincere thank you for deleting your post.

My apology was sincere. What duty are you talking about? I apologized because I was wrong. It's not a hard thing for me to admit. Sorry it's so hard for you to accept an apology. The only hate I see is spewing from YOUR keyboard!

You're Welcome, on deleting the post.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo...234629,00.html

Bush ignored Pentagon lawyers over tactics in war on terror

No consultation on detention without charge

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Wednesday June 9, 2004
The Guardian

The Bush administration routinely bypassed or overruled Pentagon experts on international law and the Geneva convention to construct a sweeping legal justification for harsh tactics in the war on terror, the Guardian has learnt.
In one instance, President George Bush's military order of November 13 2001, which denies prisoner-of-war status to captives from Afghanistan and allows their detention without charge or access to a lawyer at Guantánamo, was issued without any consultations with Pentagon lawyers, a former Pentagon official said.

The revelation follows reports in the US press this week of a Pentagon memo that argued that Mr Bush was not bound by laws against torture, and that interrogators who torture detainees at Guantánamo cannot be prosecuted.

The military order issued by Mr Bush in November 2001 was the first such directive since the second world war, and the administration's failure to seek the Pentagon's advice on what would emerge as the entire system of detention at Guantánamo surprised Pentagon officials.

"That came like a bolt from the blue," the official said. "Neither I nor anyone I knew had any insight, any advance knowledge, or any opportunity to comment on the president's military order."

The Pentagon general counsel, William James Haynes, was also left out of the loop, another official said.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration fought off allegations that it had manipulated the law to justify torture of detainees at Guantánamo, with the attorney general, John Ashcroft, pressed repeatedly at Senate committee hearings yesterday to say whether Mr Bush had ever intervened on the treatment of detainees.

Mr Ashcroft would not answer, saying only: "This administration rejects torture."

However, the Wall Street Journal and other newspapers this week obtained copies of a Pentagon report which concluded that some methods of torture were legal, including sleep deprivation and so-called stress positions. The April 2003 report said Mr Bush had the constitutional power to authorise torture - which is against US law - if American lives were in danger.

Mr Ashcroft denied the president had issued an order giving interrogators immunity from prosecution. "The president has issued no such order," he said, but he was adamant that he would not release documents on the issue.

The debate on the Pentagon memo is unwelcome for the Bush administration, which had hoped it had put the scandal about prisoner abuse to rest.

However, Senator Edward Kennedy said yesterday that the Pentagon memo and other such rulings laid the legal foundations for the abuse. "We know when we have these kinds of orders what happens: we get the stress test, we get the use of dogs, we get the forced nakedness that we've all seen and we get the hooding," Mr Kennedy said, holding up pictures from Abu Ghraib prison.

Mr Ashcroft replied: "Let me completely reject the notion that anything that this president has done or the justice department has done has directly resulted in the kind of atrocity which were cited. That is false."

The Pentagon memo was familiar to the former official who said military and civilian lawyers tried to "push back" some of the more extreme interrogation methods.

He and another senior Pentagon official described frequent clashes of opinion since the 9/11 terror attacks, with career military lawyers disturbed by the efforts of political appointees to grant sweeping powers to the administration.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet....el-Edmonds.htm
Please click the link for the full article.

State Dept. Quashed 9/11
Links To Global Drug Trade
-FBI Whistleblower

BreakForNews.com, 7th June, 2004 Update 9amET
by Fintan Dunne, Editor

LATEST: Sibel Deniz Edmonds was awaiting a June 14 court hearing to
determine if she can publicly tell the full story of intelligence failures
over the 9/11 attacks. The U.S. government wants her knowledge to
remain a state secret. Judge Reggie Walton has now called off the
hearing --no reason cited, and no future date scheduled. The fourth
time he's done this in past two years. Sibel Edmonds will hold a
press conference with Daniel Ellsberg at 3rd & Const. Ave. on
Monday, June 14, at 9:30 AM in front of the Court.



Even as a judge prepares to permanently silence her, a former FBI translator of intelligence has implicated the US State Department in quashing investigations which had linked the 9/11 terrorist network to a global drug trafficking ring.

Sibel Edmonds, whose closed-door revelations to Congressional inquiries have been declared state secrets, says that as a result, FBI investigations were ordered terminated.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lisa1769

The only hate I see is spewing from YOUR keyboard!

Here's the jist of the message you posted, complete with photographs to illustrate: It's okay for the US to torture THEM because they did THIS to US.
If that is in fact not the jist then please, help me understand what you were trying to say with that message.
And as Carne said, it's swell to apologize however the underlying message remains unchanged. That's what I'm taking issue with. Do you not see how it's hateful to bash an entire religious sect based on what happened on 9/11? Need I remind you that NO ONE has ever been charged in that crime?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Did you see the exchanges on the news tonight? It got ugly - real ugly. Ashcroft almost came undone from what I saw, esp. when some Congressman said he had a son (?) over there and how dare Ashcroft advocate torture when that could effect his son if he was captured. REAL UGLY!!!!

I watched the hearing on CSPAN and Biden was literally baring his teeth. That's the Congressman you're talking about.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I watched the hearing on CSPAN and Biden was literally baring his teeth. That's the Congressman you're talking about.

For just a second, I thought it was going to come fist to cuffs. I mean it scared me a little.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

To this day, various atrocities are carried out in the name of Christianity.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

No, no, no, Johnny. It's about love.

Wise-acre!

Followers of Christianity, love Jesus Christ... and the acts I was talking about, however heinous they may have been, were carried out because of a love for Christ.

See, I didn't contradict myself at all.