N.C. Parents Angered by Gay Prince Book - Page 2

Mari · #16 03-20-2004, 07:26 PM

oh, okay, I guess I took one comment out of context.
my english isn't that brilliant at this hour (it's 1.26

)
sorry for that!

Sugar · #17 03-20-2004, 07:31 PM

That's cool...

...I figured it may have been one of those pesky language things...

Mari · #18 03-20-2004, 07:36 PM

phew

I guess it's the subject too, I react on it before I even read a post well. It's just such an endless discussion, religion & homosexuality... I've settled for more or less christian and more or less gay

Overboard with those pesky principles!

Nixxxed · #19 03-20-2004, 07:46 PM

First of all, I haven't read or even seen the book in question. But I totally agree with Alison's comment and view about not wanting a young child to read it alone. I think adults (parents, aunts, uncles, teachers, etc.) should read WITH children as much as possible. Just think of the bond and memories created by having a loved one snuggled up next to you, sharing a good STORY (and remember, we're not talking non-fiction here) with you, and talking with you about it afterwards - explaining the parts you didn't understand, pointing out the nuances in the words and drawings you missed... Priceless.

Alsion, DO YOU plan on reading this particular book to your daughter, or discussing the subject matter in some other form? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, just wondering.

However, I'd like to point out something FOR EVERYONE from Alison's post, and that is the phrase "life style choice". And the idea I'd like to impress upon everyone who may be reading is this (in general):

THERE IS NO CHOICE INVOLVED WITH BEING A HOMOSEXUAL.

I'm gay, and I always have been. Every gay person I've ever met has said practically the same thing. I remember having "gay" thoughts in elementary school. I ALWAYS knew I was different. I didn't know exactly how when I was young, but several years before puberty I figured it out. Did I hide it? Yes. Did I feel ashamed at times? Yes. But, my actions were only a response to the "normal", disapproving, frowning world around me. It was merely a case of mental (and yes, at times, physical) survival.

I didn't choose to be gay, Alison, no more than you could suddenly choose to turn off your attraction to men and start dating and having sex with women. Yes, some people do choose a certain kind of gay LIFESTYLE, but they DO NOT choose to be gay or straight (or bi, or transgendered or ... ). And I emphasive the word LIFESTYLE here because there are all kinds of gay people and gay lifestyles, just like there are all kinds of straight people and straight lifestyles.

The only other comment I'd like to make is about the words "gay community". There is no such thing. Gay people are everywhere. Yes, there are concentrations of gay people here and there, just like there are concentrations of Chinese people in Chinatown in San Francisco and concentrations of Italians in Little Italy in New York. But even these concentrations are different, and live differently, than the other concentrations around the country and world.

Okay, enough blabbering from me. None of this is aimed at any one person, and it is no way meant to be hateful.

Johnny Stew · #20 03-20-2004, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alison
Hmmm, I have to careful of how I word this, or many people on this board will be hatefull with me.
I personally would not want my very young children reading that book. I would rather sit down and read it with her. Not every one has the same views. Just becasue some one dosn't agree with a life style choice don't call it hate. I personally don't agree with that life style, does that mean I hate gay people? No it doesn't.
God has called me to love and not to judge. God is the final judge in the end. We all will have to stand before him and give acount of what we say and do and what our motives were.
But I will probably get hatefull responds back for what I have said.
Actually I find the ledge very hatefull at times of others opinions. Mainly towards religion and Christians in general.

Alison, I don't want you to think that I, or anyone else, is coming down on you for being Christian or for your opinion.

I should stress that I was raised Catholic, and I am a firm believer in God. I also follow the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule.
But I found a lot of flaws and hypocrisy within organized religion, and I just couldn't be a part of that any longer. So I decided to cut out the middle-man, as they say.

For some that's heresy, but for me it feels right. And, at the end of the day, I DO believe in God... and isn't that what's most important?
But I certainly don't deny anyone else the right to believe as they choose to believe. My feeling is that as long as you believe in something bigger than yourself, and as long as that leads you to work towards being a better person, then you're doing something right.

But at any rate, and as Nixxxed said, homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."
This isn't deciding to become a vegetarian, or that your commute is too long so you're going to start working from home instead.

My sexual orientation was no more a choice for me, than yours was for you.
It's also not a perversion.
Quite simply, it is the way God created me.

My point was that many people cite the bible as a reason to justify "disagreeing" with homosexuality, and a number of other people also point to passages in the bible, in order to justify a wide variety of other prejudices.
To just say, "the bible says it's wrong," isn't really a strudy platform on which to stand, in my opinion. And we should open our hearts and minds, and try to rise above that old chestnut, "but the bible says...."

Lala · #21 03-21-2004, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alison
Hmmm, I have to careful of how I word this, or many people on this board will be hatefull with me.
I personally would not want my very young children reading that book. I would rather sit down and read it with her. Not every one has the same views. Just becasue some one dosn't agree with a life style choice don't call it hate. I personally don't agree with that life style, does that mean I hate gay people? No it doesn't.
God has called me to love and not to judge. God is the final judge in the end. We all will have to stand before him and give acount of what we say and do and what our motives were.
But I will probably get hatefull responds back for what I have said.
Actually I find the ledge very hatefull at times of others opinions. Mainly towards religion and Christians in general.

Alison thank you for putting it so well.

I can't help what other Christians do or think. Unfortunately there are many people who give Christianity a bad name. I DO NOT hate gays. I believe that homosexuality is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem. There is a difference.

Sugar · #22 03-21-2004, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lala
I believe that homosexuality is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem.

As I said before I think it's too much to ask to expect everyone to start walking in lockstep together. That's your opinion and you have a right to it. And as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others in this civil society, you can believe in whatever or whomever you please.

But you might want to consider how offensive it is that you believe you have the right to judge anothers life as right or wrong.

I believe that Christianity is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem.

markolas · #23 03-21-2004, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugar
I believe that Christianity is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem.

Alison · #24 03-21-2004, 03:31 PM

Well Markolas....hmmm
Well its not me you offended by that statement. But Jesus might not look so kindly at that remark, but I supose that is something you have to take up with him. After all the Word of God says, every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Some will be very humbled on that day, encluding me.

Johnny Stew · #25 03-21-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lala
I DO NOT hate gays. I believe that homosexuality is wrong...

No offense, but that comment always gives me shivers: "I don't hate gay people... I just think that what they are is wrong."
To me, it kind of sounds like, "Oh, I love black people... in fact, my maid is black."

I'd rather people show their prejudice towards me, to my face... rather than veiling it with false tolerance and acceptance.

"Love the person, hate the sin"... well, as a wise man once said, "I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not."
And I might be a sinner for other reasons, but certainly not because I'm gay.

darklinensuit · #26 03-21-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
No offense, but that comment always gives me shivers: "I don't hate gay people... I just think that what they are is wrong."
To me, it kind of sounds like, "Oh, I love black people... in fact, my maid is black."

I'd rather people show their prejudice towards me, to my face... rather than veiling it with false tolerance and acceptance.

"Love the person, hate the sin"... well, as a wise man once said, "I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not."
And I might be a sinner for other reasons, but certainly not because I'm gay.

I do NOT hate Red Rover fans, but the song to me is wrong.
Yup, I'd have to agree with you, Johnny. These statements are not as benign as some may believe.

- Jake

Sugar · #27 03-21-2004, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alison
Well Markolas....hmmm
Well its not me you offended by that statement. But Jesus might not look so kindly at that remark, but I supose that is something you have to take up with him. After all the Word of God says, every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Some will be very humbled on that day, encluding me.

I'm guessing it's actually me you're referring to since I made the remark. Markolas just thought it was funny.

I don't know that Jesus would be offended by that remark, although I have no doubt he would be touched by your concern. And when the day comes I will have no problem atoning for anything I may have done or said in my life. I've made my bed and I'm prepared to lie in it. I also think that Jesus would be bright enough to see there are a couple of meanings to my remark.

You see you and I obviously have fundamentally (no pun intended) different ideas as to the nature of whomever we will meet in the afterlife. And that's OK. Just don't lord over me (will the puns never cease...) with your opinion, and it's all good.

Lala · #28 03-22-2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugar
I believe that Christianity is wrong...and if that pisses you off, that's your problem.

It doesn't. It makes me sad though.

I don't think I'll be checking this thread again because this arguement will go on for a very long time...and it seems like at least on this board I'm losing. I've shared my opinion and you can take it the wrong way or whatever you want.

Whether you believe it, or believe it's wrong...Jesus loves you.

strandinthewind · #29 03-22-2004, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alison
Well Markolas....hmmm
Well its not me you offended by that statement. But Jesus might not look so kindly at that remark, but I supose that is something you have to take up with him. After all the Word of God says, every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Some will be very humbled on that day, encluding me.

I truly believe if Jesus came back and saw how His good news was twisted and turned for two thousand years to fit the needs of straight white males, there would be a new meaning to the "wrath of God." I think the history of the making of The Bible and the the two thousand years of persecution of anyone who stepped outside of The Roman Catholic Church and now in America, the fundamentalist Christians like Jerry Falwell ( sorry Dissention ), proves my point. So, I pray to God on my own terms and based on Christ's words in the four Gospels, which BTW never mention gay people, and I also pray for Him to forgive all of those people who make money in His name through spreading fear and hate in His name.

strandinthewind · #30 03-22-2004, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lala
It doesn't. It makes me sad though.

I don't think I'll be checking this thread again because this arguement will go on for a very long time...and it seems like at least on this board I'm losing. I've shared my opinion and you can take it the wrong way or whatever you want.

Whether you believe it, or believe it's wrong...Jesus loves you.

and God made gay people in His image - so He was wrong and sinful