Ralph jumps in

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.

Bull****. A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader. A vote for Bush is a vote for Bush.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by estranged4life
Ya mean the same Clark who ONLY won the state of Oklahoma because Kerry offended the liberal left with his "I'm a conservative...More conservative than the conservative candidate." remark??? Uh, No thanks...I'll pass!!!

Brian "I.Been Had & I.P.Freely in 2004" j.

What do you know about Ralph Nader? How can you just dismiss a great American who has done more for you and me than any of the corporate-bought Washington types can ever hope to achieve by calling him a "basket case?"

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Bull****. A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader. A vote for Bush is a vote for Bush.

Touche' AND if the candidates were strong enough Nader would be irrelevant. Interestingly, the talking heads and television pundits are indicating that Nader may siphon more votes from W than Kerry because the D's apparently are united and the thrule fiscally conservative "old school" R's are furious at W for his D'esq. spending.

Also, I think there is more to the whole "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" thought process. I mean you (Carne) live in New York. Historically, the D's win New York by a healthy margin. So, uyour vote for Nader is irrelevant to the D's winning N Y. Conversly, your vote for Nader helps in a little way toward making the U.S. less of a corp. controlled two party system, a laudable goal IMO.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, I think there is more to the whole "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" thought process. I mean you (Carne) live in New York. Historically, the D's win New York by a healthy margin. So, uyour vote for Nader is irrelevant to the D's winning N Y. Conversly, your vote for Nader helps in a little way toward making the U.S. less of a corp. controlled two party system, a laudable goal IMO.

Thank you. And you inadvertently point to another perverse little reality. In winner-take-all states your vote counts for nothing if you vote for the losing party.

The system is broken. That being the case, I am voting my conscience.

[Bella Figura]

Once again, I will be voting for Nader. and thank goodness for me because I was actually thinking of voting for Bush, which would have been my first time ever voting Republican in a presidential election...

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
Once again, I will be voting for Nader. and thank goodness for me because I was actually thinking of voting for Bush, which would have been my first time ever voting Republican in a presidential election...

See - there is one vote W is not getting because of Nader!!!!

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
It's hard to be perfect. Don't become a Kerry apologist. Kerry will make a damn fine president. I will support him proudly and you should too.

Oh, I'm not turning into an apologist; I think he will make a damn fine president. I was just saying that while I disagree with him on many issues, he's still the best man for the job. No one will sway me of that opinion, doll.

I adore Nader; if I didn't, I wouldn't have voted for him in '00. But I don't want to waste my vote this time and run the risk of ChimpCo residing in the White House for four more years. It ain't happening.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Also, I think there is more to the whole "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" thought process. I mean you (Carne) live in New York. Historically, the D's win New York by a healthy margin. So, uyour vote for Nader is irrelevant to the D's winning N Y. Conversly, your vote for Nader helps in a little way toward making the U.S. less of a corp. controlled two party system, a laudable goal IMO.

Very good point, I must say. I'm in MA and there's no way in hell this state will vote Republican, so I guess it wouldn't matter if I voted for Nader again. But still, I have to have a hand in getting Shrub out.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
Once again, I will be voting for Nader. and thank goodness for me because I was actually thinking of voting for Bush, which would have been my first time ever voting Republican in a presidential election...

You considered voting for Bush?! Crack is whack! j/k

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
What do you know about Ralph Nader? How can you just dismiss a great American who has done more for you and me than any of the corporate-bought Washington types can ever hope to achieve by calling him a "basket case?"

What I know is that anyone who believes he isn't going to take votes away from the Democratic candidate, In a race he knows for a fact he cannot win, Is a basketcase in my eyes...Nothin' more, But then again I doubt he will even be on most of the ballots come November.

As far I see, The Democrats/Republicans of this country all they have done for me is alienate me from believing ANYTHING either party has to say!!! (They both reach common ground on 2 goals: #1-All they care about is $$$ & #2-They are full of s--t!) I guess the saying is true "Unless you live on the East/West Coasts politicians could care less what you would like to see done, Unless it is time for elections...Then all they care about is your vote and nothing more."

Brian "Independent til the end!" j.

ps-I agree he may have done alot for consumers (I read up on him awhile back mind you), But I feel he shouldnt jump into the election now...Personally, I think he SHOULD'VE jumped in earlier just to see what he could've done with the independent voters who don't like either parties stance (I accidently deleted what was written here before while posting it, My bad.)

[Bella Figura]

dissention...I do not vote based on the fact I want to get rid of someone...so the whole Howard Dean thing never hooked me. I try to vote for someone not just against somebody else.

Edwards is a little to green and and his charm too slick for me though his message speaks to me and I do find him attractive being the "typical" middle-aged housewife demographic.

but John Kerry does flipflop on issues and he is part of the system so for me is part of the problem. so I'm having quite a bit of trouble feeling supportive enough to pull the lever for him...

not to reiterate old debates but I supported Bush and still do for his strong stand on terrorism regardless of how many countries it has pissed off...most countries never liked us so we just found out again who our true allies/friends are. I've traveled abroad several times since the mid-80's and I've always heard Anti-American rhetoric on each and every trip...which is why I was
"leaning"

I'm basically of the mind that the whole world has the maturity of a schoolyard so politically I try to be an anarchist who votes...and I'm definetely an anti-corprite so Nader's my vote so far!!!

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by Bella Figura

I'm basically of the mind that the whole world has the maturity of a schoolyard so politically I'm an anarchist who votes...

Statement I have heard anyone say to describe their view of the political world...

So, I guess I am an anarchist too...

Brian j.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
not to reiterate old debates but I supported Bush and still do for his strong stand on terrorism regardless of how many countries it has pissed off...most countries never liked us so we just found out again who our true allies/friends are. I've traveled abroad several times since the mid-80's and I've always heard Anti-American rhetoric on each and every trip...which is why I was
"leaning"

If Bush was tough on terrorism, I'd agree with you. But he isn't and one issue shouldn't be the deciding in a particular vote, IMO. What has Bush done, really? Not much, except for making some of his right-wing zealots happy. He's run this country down the toilet, as evidenced by the abnormally large deficit. And the latest thing with his constitutional ban on gay marriage is the final straw. It's insulting, just like his administration and the man himself. He's practically anti-social programs, so that's enough to vote him out right there. Everything he's promised to do either hasn't been done or has been so under-funded that the goal can't be accomplished. Now, our soldiers in Iraq are going to be without any funds from September to January. What's he doing with all this money???

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by estranged4life
What I know is that anyone who believes he isn't going to take votes away from the Democratic candidate, In a race he knows for a fact he cannot win, Is a basketcase in my eyes...

Oh, I see. But then in the same post:

As far I see, The Democrats/Republicans of this country all they have done for me is alienate me from believing ANYTHING either party has to say!!! (They both reach common ground on 2 goals: #1-All they care about is $$$ & #2-They are full of s--t!)

And Ralph says:

The lack of substantive response from both the DNC and the RNC to important subjects and necessities facing Americans reinforced the need for an alternative choice to the two major parties in the presidential race. The two-party duopoly has demonstrated again that they will not engage in a simple discussion of the issues about the future direction of key policies that will shape the nation.

And you say:

ps-I agree he may have done alot for consumers (I read up on him awhile back mind you), But I feel he shouldnt jump into the election now...Personally, I think he SHOULD'VE jumped in earlier.

So who's the basket case? Give me your address, I'll send you a mirror and you'll be able to answer that in no time.

[estranged4life]

oh wait it's CarneVaca...I am so intimidated...LMAO!!! I guess people arent allowed to make mistakes whle posting a reply huh?