But WHY do you not like it?

[sulamith]

Sure, calling something "the worst piece of drivel to come from Stevie Nicks' lips and pen" isn't attacking.

That's objectivity at it's finest. Silly me.

I am more of a lyrics person, that doesn't mean I don't "get" work Go Insane.

You have to remember that everyone interprets this stuff differently, and it doesn't make anybody right or wrong.

I could say that if you can't see past the surface in a song like WISYA, then you obviously don't get it, but then I would be remiss, since that is merely my opinion.

It takes all types.

-Sharon

[dissention]

Originally posted by sulamith
I could say that if you can't see past the surface in a song like WISYA, then you obviously don't get it, but then I would be remiss, since that is merely my opinion.

It takes all types.

-Sharon

You can see under the surface and understand what she's getting at, but that doesn't mean that it makes the song good. It's still a terrible song, even when you understand it. It's all in the way it's presented and, in this case, it's presented pretty badly.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by sulamith
Sure, calling something "the worst piece of drivel to come from Stevie Nicks' lips and pen" isn't attacking.

It's a strongly worded opinion. God knows I've read plenty of strongly worded opinions from you and didn't take you to task. Opinions are opinions.

That's objectivity at it's finest. Silly me.

Silly you? Perhaps. "Objectivity" is your characterization, not mine.

I am more of a lyrics person, that doesn't mean I don't "get" work Go Insane.

If you're excusing the repetition in WISYA because of the repetition in I Must Go, you've definitely missed something.

You have to remember that everyone interprets this stuff differently, and it doesn't make anybody right or wrong.

If you can find an instance in which I claimed anyone was wrong, please refresh me. I even conceded that a few people my think this song is wonderful, and that's good for them.

I could say that if you can't see past the surface in a song like WISYA, then you obviously don't get it, but then I would be remiss, since that is merely my opinion.

I can see past the surface enough to realize there's some beautiful guitar work, and I've said as much. Go back and read it. The guitar work, however, cannot save this very bad song.

It takes all types.

It sure does.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by sulamith
If you want to attack Stevie for the repetiveness of WISYA, you gotta give Lindsey the same for I Must Go.

You could say that's the worst piece of drivel to ever come out of Lindsey. He says "I must go" about about 147 times.

36, actually. lol

I too don't "get" the genius of I Must Go, but since Christy specifically asked about WISYA, I addressed the repetitiveness in that one solely. As for IMG, I think when you have to ignore lyrics to enjoy a song something's missing. It's not just the lyrics but the melody that's relentlessly repetitive. It sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free.

[RavenOfRhiannon]

I got your back, JohnnyStew.

I like WISYA as well.

Saying you don't like it because it sucks is actually a more valid opinion than saying she can't write or sing at this point in her career. If you don't like it because it sucks in your opinion, that's fine. Not everyone is going to like every single Mac song.

However, saying she couldn't write or sing is a different story. Vocally, take Seven Wonders, probably her strongest vocal on the album. Which leads me to believe she sang WISYA like that on purpose, and I think it fits the mood of the song.
Lyrically, it is a simple song. I like that too. It is very straight forward and does draw the listener in. You know from the very first line this is a song about a very difficult goodbye.

Randy

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by sodascouts
It sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free.

BINGO!!!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by RavenOfRhiannon
Saying you don't like it because it sucks is actually a more valid opinion than saying she can't write or sing at this point in her career. If you don't like it because it sucks in your opinion, that's fine. Not everyone is going to like every single Mac song.

However, saying she couldn't write or sing is a different story.

Randy, do you like the song? You didn't even say that, so I wonder if you are arguing just for the sake of it. That's OK, I do that too.

However, reread what I quoted above. On the one hand you're saying it's OK for me to dislike the song because it sucks, but it's not OK for me to dislike it if I say she couldn't write or sing at that point? I don't know about you, but I see a mathematical truth there:

Couldn't write + couldn't sing = song sucks.

Pretty damn simple.

[wondergirl9847]

Interesting reading!!

I didn't mean for everyone to "pick" on WISYA or Red Rover in particular, I just meant, whatever FM song you don't care for...tell us WHY. NTF is a song not many like as well as most LB songs on Mirage...so if you don't like THOSE songs, tell us why.

I'm not fond of the song Over and Over from Tusk...I don't HATE it, it's just a skipper for me...it's SOOOO slow and plodding. I do love the 1980 Live album version of it tho...LB's guitar is MASTERFUL!!

I cannot listen to Sugar Daddy...I've tried. I don't know WHAT it is really, it doesn't fit in with the rest of the White Album, IMO. It sounds, I dunno....silly to me. LOL

I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over who says a song sucks or not....lots of you hate Red Rover.....that song brings me to tears...so, I don't care who hates it, it moves me...and that's ALL that matters.

I only started this thread to get some sort of idea as to WHY we all disliked certain songs.

[dissention]

I think that, regardless if anyone chooses to admit it, that Stevie couldn't sing at all around that time and she couldn't write very well. All you have to do is listen to some bootlegs from the RAL tour and it'll be obvious that she couldn't sing, she could just scream and wail and babble incoherently. By a writing standpoint, she was just as terrible. The quality just was not there. You can't compare WISYA and WTTR...S quality-wise with songs like Gypsy, How Still My Love, or even I Can't Wait; their is no comparison, IMO. By this point in her career, she was just writing down stream-of-consciousness thoughts onto paper and using them for songs. If she was a good writer in that period, she wouldn't of had to use a Sandy Stewart song and she wouldn't have left her remaining songs so incoherent. For the average person, trying to decipher Edge of Seventeen would be easier than deciphering WTTR...S.

So, I wholeheartedly agree with Carne: at this point, she couldn't sing for beans and she couldn't write well.

[Johnny Stew]

Lord knows I'm not trying to get into another Stevie vs. Lindsey argument here, but I just wanted to add a few additional comments.

CarneVaca... Nancy (sodascouts) made the comment that "I Must Go," "sounds more like a man caught in an endless loop of indecision than one who is breaking free," as part of her argument as to why she doesn't care for the song.
To which you whole-heartedly agreed (at least that's how I took your "BINGO" response)... implying that this is what makes the song so terrific.

So, once again, I don't understand why... when Lindsey has taken a certain step (an endlessly repeated phrase, in this case), it's EXACTLY the right thing for the song, and another facet of what makes it so great... but if Stevie also uses a repeated phrase, or a particular vocal style, it's somehow a cop-out on her part, and the resulting song is merely "drivel" and "tripe."

Can you at least understand how, as much as you, personally, can glean from a song such as "I Must Go," and as much as you find enjoyment from it... that's how much a song such as "When I See You Again" can be appreciated by, and moving to, someone else?

I'm also reminded of your arguments for "Family Man"... another song which a large amount of people often cite as "the worst" (though I myself happen to love the song).

I completely realize that you understand that some people do like "When I See You Again" (though I noted an implication... correct me if i'm wrong... that people are merely "excusing" it because it's Stevie), and you're absolutely, 100% allowed to have your opinion and to dislike the song... but to completely write it off (aside from Lindsey's contribution to the song), is... in my opinion... a bit short-sighted.

Hence my original comment that the song's bad repuation is rather unfair.

Again, I'm not saying everyone HAS to like the song, or that they SHOULD like it... I simply wanted to point out that all of the reasons people cite as examples of what a bad song it is, are exactly what I, and not just a few other people, think make it such an amazing song.
Perhaps even brilliant in its own right.

[chiliD]

Jeeeeeeeez, even *I* like "When I See You Again"...

...DESPITE my
1) abhorance of the "whatsamattababies"
2) hatred of the tone of Stevie's voice
3) thinking it is NOT a good song and that it is not one of the upper eschelon (sp?) of Stevie's contributions...

...But...for some goddamned reason I like it. I don't know why.

Maybe it all comes down to the contradiction of Stevie singing "WHEN I see you again" and Lindsey singing "IF I see you again"...which just said VOLUMES, especially in retrospect. And, Lindsey's guitar work. I do agree with Stevie's view at the time that it should've been the album closer.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
I think that, regardless if anyone chooses to admit it, that Stevie couldn't sing at all around that time and she couldn't write very well.

Oddly enough, this is my favorite period for Stevie's voice.
I will grant you that many of the live performances were less than stellar, but her voice on 'Rock A Little' and 'Tango' is absolutely amazing, to my ears.

I love that she could go from that hard-edged, tough rocker-chick voice, one minute ("I Can't Wait," "Seven Wonders"), to this fragile, raspy, Billie Holliday voice, the next.

I have missed that voice on every recording since.

Also, I think the lyrics to the songs from this time period are far more moving and substantive than her earlier songs (I will once again go on record as saying that I actually prefer "When I See You Again" to "Landslide")... even if, on the surface, they seem "out there."

I think that her earlier songs were perhaps just a little more universal, and therefore easier to understand and relate to.

But, as I've often noted, it's all a matter of personal preference.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by chiliD
Jeeeeeeeez, even *I* like "When I See You Again"...

...for some goddamned reason I like it. I don't know why.

'Cuz it's friggin' amazing, that's why!

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
But, as I've often noted, it's all a matter of personal preference.

AMEN MY BRUTHA!! That's what it all amounts to!

Music is AMAZING, isn't it?!

[chiliD]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
'Cuz it's friggin' amazing, that's why!

Nah...I think it is more like "I have to like at least ONE Stevie Nicks song on the album and since she didn't write "Seven Wonders" and I hate everything about "WTTR..S", I had to like WISYA by default.