"Tusk" Survivor - Round 16

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

- it is all LB and the others are gnats on his ass

Well Strand I happen to totally agree with you, apart from above funny quote. It's the criticism-less (sorry) attitude from the Stevie-worshippers (fandom and press) that forced me in the Buckingham-camp. We're talking 79-80 here. From that moment on, people who saw the band in the more realistic perspective had to fight that Stevie-the-star-and-her-band-image with an exaggeration of at least buckinghams' role. It was years and years later that I came to the conclusion that it maybe was not such a big exaggeration.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Well Strand I happen to totally agree with you, apart from above funny quote. It's the criticism-less (sorry) attitude from the Stevie-worshippers (fandom and press) that forced me in the Buckingham-camp. We're talking 79-80 here. From that moment on, people who saw the band in the more realistic perspective had to fight that Stevie-the-star-and-her-band-image with an exaggeration of at least buckinghams' role. It was years and years later that I came to the conclusion that it maybe was not such a big exaggeration.

Well, Stevie was the star and she worked hard to be that - yet people begrudge her for it - I'll never get it. Note: CM and LB clearly were stars in their own right, but even they and other members of FM recognized that La Nicks stood out because of her charismatic stage presence. LB did it in the DR doc and CM readily admitted in the drunken Japan footage (lord love her) that that stage presence and the dancing, etc. added to and enhanced the performances of FM So, I am not saying LB and CM have no talent or stage presence - I am just saying that in the day and even now, Stevie has more of it to more, but certainly not all, people and that is hard to ignore.

But that does not mean Stevie is a talentless idiot who happens to surround herself with great talent without which she could not sing a note or write a word. That vision of Stevie is what I object to. I also object to people saying that me saying that is a blindly rabid defense and one not grounded in reality. But, people (not you Gerald) say it anyway and I think it makes them look hypocrtical, defensive and idiotic - which is why I think no reasonable person can actually think that - thus they say it to be inflammatory

Again, the saga never ends - its just like a river

[The Tower]

.........................................................

[ryan8472]

Stop voting based on live performances people! The album version is boring! Live is another story....

[amber]

The best part is, whichever 2 are left after this, both will have won.(in my head) So it's probably gonna be IKINW and Storms as the winners, which is just perfectly balanced. So, this is my last vote....
Amber

[marc402]

a pitty it is still here when so many other far better songs are long gone

[dissention]

I find it perplexing that people are voting based on how a song comes across live. We're playing Tusk Survior, not Live Tusk Songs Survivor. If we were, I wouldn't have lobbied to get rid of Sara so early.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, Stevie was the star and she worked hard to be that - yet people begrudge her for it - I'll never get it.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

So, I am not saying LB and CM have no talent or stage presence - I am just saying that in the day and even now, Stevie has more of it to more, but certainly not all, people and that is hard to ignore.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks who saw Fleetwood Mac this past tour would disagree.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band. .

I don't think she was trying to upstage, I do think she was trying to give the best performance possible, like i'm sure they all were, and hers often WAS the best, so it just naturally upstaged. Plus, she wasn't tied to an instrument, so her performances naturally had a different element. I'm hoping the other bandmates weren't mad at her just for giving a great performance...
That's like not liking someone because they're prettier than you ie, you can't help who you are.

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks who saw Fleetwood Mac this past tour would disagree.

Liddy Buck was the Hammie McStar this tour... He was excellent, excellent, excellent!!!!!
AMber

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by amber

I don't think she was trying to upstage....

Silly, silly, Amber.
Let me give you the facts... when Stevie is dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's simply trying to upstage Lindsey and Christine and get all the attention.
And when Stevie isn't dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's just a lifeless bore who should have retired years ago.

These are the plain facts, my dear!
So learn them, accept them, and then repeat them often in the hopes that others will agree with you.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Maybe it has to do with the fact that it's kind of selfish to work towards being the "star" of a band with three lead vocalists, three songwriters, and two of which play instruments. Can you honestly blame Lindsey and, to some extent, Chris for being rather miffed over Stevie's antics and also how their respective fans would feel as if Stevie deliberately upstaged them (which, while I could care less, is what she obviously did)? I know I would have been fuming and would probably have tarred the flake's black robes if I was in the band.

Poppycock - CM repeatedly said she never wanted it and LB - well who the hell knows what he was thinking - but he sure was jealous of it and from day one, Stevie always gave LB a wide berth by standing to the side during his solos BTW - where did CM or LB EVER say there were miffed at her stage presence prior to 1987? I have NEVER read that. I will admit that after LB left and was pissed at her, he let go with some snide remarks, but that surely sounded like sour grapes to me and he never said he was pissed at her for becoming the "star" So, all this Stevie is a cruel and conniving bitch that stole the light from poor helpless LB and CM is just drivel. They admittedly were okay with it and you know that!!!!

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm willing to bet that the majority of folks who saw Fleetwood Mac this past tour would disagree.

I agree and he was due it after 25 years. I also think the VAST majority of the people willingly admit (and the other half know it but cannot admit it :laigh: ) that La Nicks was subdued for whatever reason and that let LB's natural shine show more. Again, one spin sequence across the stage during Big Love or some other solo song and the light goes to her. I am not saying LB is not great or anything like that. I am just saying Stevie is a natural for the light - always has been always will be - LB even said as much in DR doc. (I think it was in that when he talks about she was beautiful,had that husky voice, etc.)

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Silly, silly, Amber.
Let me give you the facts... when Stevie is dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's simply trying to upstage Lindsey and Christine and get all the attention.
And when Stevie isn't dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's just a lifeless bore who should have retired years ago.

These are the plain facts, my dear!
So learn them, accept them, and then repeat them often in the hopes that others will agree with you.

I'm shocked that you believe those are the facts! Truly shocked! Even I don't believe those things!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Silly, silly, Amber.
Let me give you the facts... when Stevie is dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's simply trying to upstage Lindsey and Christine and get all the attention.
And when Stevie isn't dancing and twirling and bashing her tambourine, she's just a lifeless bore who should have retired years ago.

These are the plain facts, my dear!
So learn them, accept them, and then repeat them often in the hopes that others will agree with you.

My point exactly - AND - she is a talentless, fat, lazy, bitchy, coke whore who relies on LB for everything including the air she breathes Give me a break

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm shocked that you believe those are the facts! Truly shocked! Even I don't believe those things!

Smart Ass!!!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Poppycock - CM repeatedly said she never wanted it and LB - well who the hell knows what he was thinking - but he sure was jealous of it and from day one, Stevie always gave LB a wide berth by standing to the side during his solos BTW - where did CM or LB EVER say there were miffed at her stage presence prior to 1987? I have NEVER read that. I will admit that after LB left and was pissed at her, he let go with some snide remarks, but that surely sounded like sour grapes to me and he never said he was pissed at her for becoming the "star" So, all this Stevie is a cruel and conniving bitch that stole the light from poor helpless LB and CM is just drivel. They admittedly were okay with it and you know that!!!!

Speaking of poppycock...

I think it would take a stretch of the imagination to believe for a second that they weren't resentful of Stevie for upstaging them all the time. In what Lindsey didn't express with words, he certainly expressed his feelings in other ways. For example, his antics at one of their Australian shows for Tusk. As for Chris, you must not have read many of her interviews or seen some of them. Sometimes she was simply brutal, albeit under the guise of sarcasm and wit. One of my favorite snide comments from her was the "sex symbol" one from the Rumours outtake footage. That one was nasty.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree and he was due it after 25 years. I also think the VAST majority of the people willingly admit (and the other half know it but cannot admit it :laigh: ) that La Nicks was subdued for whatever reason and that let LB's natural shine show more...

Yes, and if Stevie isn't the one who is getting all the accolades, she must have been "subdued" or "off" that night. There's always an excuse. No one can ever say for one second that maybe it's Lindsey who just becomes more comfortable and outgoing onstage as the years pass. Or that he's the one with all the energy and doesn't just rest on one simple, off-balanced twirl to get people riled up. I swear, if they were performing and she only got a few claps for Dreams or Rhiannon, people would say it's only because the crowd was full of Lindsey fans who "couldn't stand the flake."

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Again, one spin sequence across the stage during Big Love or some other solo song and the light goes to her.

That would be the epitome of upstaging and spotlight-grabbing.