Destiny Rules documentary

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Did Lindsey give a damn about the band’s legacy when he quit 56 days before opening night?

The band was defunct after January 1, 1996.

1996 was a reboot. Rumours members only. That limitation on membership lasted over 20 years. Lindsey's firing destroyed the legacy of the rebooted band.

Lindsey very much gave a damn about that band's legacy.

As for his leaving in '87, he was surrounded by children drinking and doing drugs. He wanted to grow up, which necessitated getting away from that scene.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Lindsey very much gave a damn about that band's legacy.

As for his leaving in '87, he was surrounded by children drinking and doing drugs. He wanted to grow up, which necessitated getting away from that scene.

Yes. And despite all the bs during the recording stage as well, he never quit on the album itself.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

LindseyÂ’s weapon has always been critical recognition and wide respect of rock-n-roll peers. In the late 80s Henley cited Lindsey as a great producer and player. Clapton used him to produce a song on BEHIND THE SUN. The critics loved most of his quirky, often boutiquey albums. And no matter who replaced him, Christine always cited him as the best for the band.

This was not enough.

RUMOURS and FLEETWOOD MAC turned the band into money-making stars. Once the other four got a taste of the good life, they were zeroed in on staying commercially viable. Once Stevie’s solo debut became the fifth best selling album of 1981, she was the band’s main route to guaranteed success. Fleetwood Mac’s weapon became their mass appeal—and Lindsey’s creative attempts to undermine that were getting in the way...so to speak. At the same time, they couldn’t reach their commercial heights (on record) or turn in explosive shows (on tour) without him.

The band’s decision to fire him may have seemed like a safe calculation (ie: people will still come to see “the girls”) but it did serious damage to their legacy. About as much damage as Stevie not choosing to record that last album with them, something that would have put a beautiful bow on top of the whole FM package. In hindsight, it’s clear she was plotting LB’s firing even before BuckVie went on tour. As long as their collaboration was not a Fleetwood Mac album, there was no danger of the band needing to tour a hit record with LB. As long as FM simply did greatest hits tours, they could replace him, albeit with dubious results.

I've always thought that it was the BuckVie project that really put the wheels in motion to axe Lindsey. In previous years all the material that Lindsey, Mick, and John had been working on remained shelved because they couldn't get Stevie onboard. That of course changed with the EP they did in 2013 and a few of those tracks saw the light.

When Christine returned, the public courting of Stevie started up for a second time. Lindsey spoke to the press on behalf of the band for the better part of two years while he was trying to get her to participate, to no avail. It was a major checkmate move to decide to release the album without Stevie. They played nice and flipped the narrative to the "It always felt like a duet album" to perhaps let Stevie off the hook or soften the blow. It was pretty laughable because they had spent the better part of the year+ making statements wishing/hoping she would join them. Additionally, Mick made some really nice remarks to the press about the work that had been completed. When the album was released, critics and the press never glossed over the fact that it was essentially a Fleetwood Mac album minus Stevie Nicks. The damage was done.

So in my eyes, the announcement of that album being released without Stevie was the beginning of the end. Stevie was already in full egomania mode, I think everyone was holding their breath wondering how this was going to go down.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by cbBen

The band was defunct after January 1, 1996.

1996 was a reboot. Rumours members only. That limitation on membership lasted over 20 years. Lindsey's firing destroyed the legacy of the rebooted band.

Lindsey very much gave a damn about that band's legacy.

As for his leaving in '87, he was surrounded by children drinking and doing drugs. He wanted to grow up, which necessitated getting away from that scene.

Very true. But, quitting (and I completely understand why) set a lot of wheels in motion. He should have never taken so long to put out his solo record. He took out his own legs out in exchange his sanity.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Very true. But, quitting (and I completely understand why) set a lot of wheels in motion. He should have never taken so long to put out his solo record. He took out his own legs out in exchange his sanity.

Yeah the biggest wheel that it set in motion was the fact that Steve Nicks could only show up for 6 weeks and the rest of the band would cover her a$$ to make sure she sounded good on the record. It proved that she had enough leverage in the band that she could half-a$$ it and the rest of the band would be forced to deal with it/fix it.

She threw tantrums about decisions that she decided to be absent for in the first place.

It didn't end when she got sober. The diva behavior continued with SYW. Leaving Lindsey on the hook to sequence SYW because she decided she needed to go on vacation. The list goes on....

In hindsight, he should have walked away from the tango sessions until Stevie and Mick got their sh*t together. Mick and Stevie would both throw him under the bus 30 years later anyways. Some friends they are.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I've always thought that it was the BuckVie project that really put the wheels in motion to axe Lindsey. In previous years all the material that Lindsey, Mick, and John had been working on remained shelved because they couldn't get Stevie onboard. That of course changed with the EP they did in 2013 and a few of those tracks saw the light.

When Christine returned, the public courting of Stevie started up for a second time. Lindsey spoke to the press on behalf of the band for the better part of two years while he was trying to get her to participate, to no avail. It was a major checkmate move to decide to release the album without Stevie. They played nice and flipped the narrative to the "It always felt like a duet album" to perhaps let Stevie off the hook or soften the blow. It was pretty laughable because they had spent the better part of the year+ making statements wishing/hoping she would join them. Additionally, Mick made some really nice remarks to the press about the work that had been completed. When the album was released, critics and the press never glossed over the fact that it was essentially a Fleetwood Mac album minus Stevie Nicks. The damage was done.

So in my eyes, the announcement of that album being released without Stevie was the beginning of the end. Stevie was already in full egomania mode, I think everyone was holding their breath wondering how this was going to go down.

I think you’re right on about this.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I think you’re right on about this.

Not to mention all of the positive press around the album and tour, which had to have been more salt on the wound for Stevie.

[jbrownsjr]

BuckVie really cranked out a hot album for 1987. Nicks was nowhere to be found.

[cbBen]

Jeremy Spencer is on just one track of Then Play On and still considered a full band member.

The group could have said what Graham Nash eventually said about Daylight Again (a CSN album that was SN with Crosby tacked on at the end of the process, and contributing just one original song): "This combination/permutation (i.e. Stills-Nash) is the only one that has never been tried."

They could have said now that Christine has rejoined, we want to feature her prominently and see what a FM album sounds like produced by Lindsey and dominated by Christine.

Stevie could have said she liked and approved of the idea and it was perfect timing for it anyway given that she was busy with her 24 Karat Gold tour. Then she could have made a token appearance with a two songs and some backing vocals. She still has two good unused songs, no? If not she could just hand over her poetry book and tell Lindsey to draw a couple songs out of it, perhaps with Waddy Dave Stewart and Mike Campbell on hand to help put her words into music.

Point being she didn't need four songs. She didn't need to spend a lot of time in the studio. She could have said "Christine and Lindsey have something special. I didn't want to get in the way. I decided to hang back and let them dominate the show."

It would have made her look big, not small.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Jeremy Spencer is on just one track of Then Play On and still considered a full band member.

The group could have said what Graham Nash eventually said about Daylight Again (a CSN album that was SN with Crosby tacked on at the end of the process, and contributing just one original song): "This combination/permutation (i.e. Stills-Nash) is the only one that has never been tried."

They could have said now that Christine has rejoined, we want to feature her prominently and see what a FM album sounds like produced by Lindsey and dominated by Christine.

Stevie could have said she liked and approved of the idea and it was perfect timing for it anyway given that she was busy with her 24 Karat Gold tour. Then she could have made a token appearance with a two songs and some backing vocals. She still has two good unused songs, no? If not she could just hand over her poetry book and tell Lindsey to draw a couple songs out of it, perhaps with Waddy Dave Stewart and Mike Campbell on hand to help put her words into music.

Point being she didn't need four songs. She didn't need to spend a lot of time in the studio. She could have said "Christine and Lindsey have something special. I didn't want to get in the way. I decided to hang back and let them dominate the show."

It would have made her look big, not small.

I love this post. In a perfect world where everyone is dancing, spinning and singing with each other!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Not to mention all of the positive press around the album and tour, which had to have been more salt on the wound for Stevie.

Stevie didn’t give a crap about the album or tour. At most, she was annoyed at being asked questions about it. She was headlining 20,000 seat arenas with the Pretenders opening. LBCM headlined 4,000 seats amphitheaters, most of which were about 2/3 to 3/4 full. LBCM only factors in because it showed once and for all that Stevie was the big draw. It solidified her power in the band and further weakened Lindsey’s.

But, it was the Classic shows and Lindsey’s comments before the Classic shows that tanked his standing. You’ve all read Irving’s response by now. Are there really any doubters left?

And, then, Tom Petty died.

Hell of time to ask for the tour to be delayed right as tour negotiations start.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by cbBen

As for his leaving in '87, he was surrounded by children drinking and doing drugs. He wanted to grow up, which necessitated getting away from that scene.

People have said Lindsey rented an RV so a drug dealer could live in his driveway during the recording of Tango so Mick would have access to drugs. So if true, he certainly provided the drugs for the children! If he needed to get away from the scene, maybe he could have not had a drug dealer living in his driveway.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

Yes. And despite all the bs during the recording stage as well, he never quit on the album itself.

None of them ever bailed during the recording of an album. Stevie did her part as agreed and left, while everyone else stayed. I doubt Stevie was needed to provide tambourine during You and I, Part II lol.

Shout out to Christine, John, and Mick for… not quitting on the album itself.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

People have said Lindsey rented an RV so a drug dealer could live in his driveway during the recording of Tango so Mick would have access to drugs.

i seem to recall he rented an RV so Mick can go sleep / live there instead of staying in his house when not recording. since Mick was incapable of driving to his own home those days.

where did "renting an RV for a drug dealer" story come from?

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie didn’t give a crap about the album or tour. At most, she was annoyed at being asked questions about it. She was headlining 20,000 seat arenas with the Pretenders opening. LBCM headlined 4,000 seats amphitheaters, most of which were about 2/3 to 3/4 full. LBCM only factors in because it showed once and for all that Stevie was the big draw. It solidified her power in the band and further weakened Lindsey’s.

But, it was the Classic shows and Lindsey’s comments before the Classic shows that tanked his standing. You’ve all read Irving’s response by now. Are there really any doubters left?

so you are - and have been - arguing it was Stevie and Irving who decided to pull the plug on Lindsey mid 2017, and then they pretended like that just happened completely unexpectedly on Jan 30th (on whenever Musicares was) and they were oh so scrambling to save the tour that didn't even have to happen.

i agree with you.