Most Unpopular Opinions About Lindsey

[madformac]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

exactly. so why stating that lindsey's playing lacks the roots of music, like your dear english buddy does? It's bull. And you just proved me right. Thanks bud. And that on your fiftieth. feeling bluesy today?

Sorry Gerald but I think that herbal ( ) medication has lobotomised you.

I just can't hear anything in Lindsey's work that gives me any hint of the roots of the blues. I can't hear a connection. Just as an example I wince at Green Manalishi and Oh Well when he's played them, it sounds like a cover, all processed notes...

OK, fair point, if you play any modern music then ultimately you have to be influenced by blues, even if you don't understand it or believe it but the link is lost with Buck for me. It's like saying a 2000 year old Sequoia and an Ikea coffee table are the same thing because they are both made of wood. One has had its roots in the earth for 2 milllennia, it lives, breathes and grows with time. The other was a rooted entity once for a time but became a processed, self repeating and clinical device with one use and for me its to put my double espresso on.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by madformac

Sorry Gerald but I think that herbal ( ) medication has lobotomised you.

I just can't hear anything in Lindsey's work that gives me any hint of the roots of the blues. I can't hear a connection.

You are a real superficial listener/reader. I don't hear blues either. I hear Folk country and jazziness. I thought we agreed on the fact that that was roots too.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

..........TRUE.
Partially
He also performed/recorded Come, Red Rover, My little demon, Bleed to love her, Gift of Screws and Shut us down. Sorry dude but that's a pallet of approaches and genius that Clapton didn't reach all of his career.

Well Come is something a 5 year old could play. it's all distortion and self repeating indulgence. Red Rover is an extention of his "Big Love cycle" which I already praised. Bleed To Love Her is nothing new in terms of approach. Gift Of Screws was recorded at an age when an artist could get away with experimentation without being labelled neurotic, hell it was recorded, what, 11 years ago and he's still not released it? Now it's just too late for him to get away with it. Shut Us Down is another slightly adapted take on the "Big Love cycle"

I thought Murrow, the studio version anyway, was fresh. He f**ked it right up on Soundstage IMHO. What a wasted opportunity.

"Shuffle Riff" if it ever sees the light of day is a strong piece that has for me survived the 11 year and counting wait. That's quite fresh.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

And recycling old songs? Come on. Clapton does that an entire life. Not to mention Knopfler-MY GOD re rehashes every tone and melodyline he invented. Those few!

Knopfler can play any musical style with ease whatever you believe G. Blues, country, jazz, rock, pop, whatever. One of my favorite MK songs he didn't even play or sing on which is Private Dancer. It's just that nowadays Mark chooses what he wants to play. Like Clapton he doesn't feel the need to show off. He's a mature adult at peace with his sound and playing, they really have nothing to prove and you can add Gilmour, Page and most other mature players to that list. Lindsey is a different animal. It's like he still feels the need to prove himself. The so called "experimentation" to me is a sign of an O/C disorder. With all due respect, it's anal, it's childish and he needs to grow up now. Maybe he thinks he will top Rumours if he tweaks it long enough, I don't know why he hasn't released more work. He should stop trying to experiment and analyse everything and just release something. If I was at Warner/Reprise I'd release him.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

And about the thousands of licks that Clapton invented-his virtuosity is not at stake here- It's not about size, dude it's what you do with it.
It's not about licks, it's about how you compose with them.
At the very least Lindsey is more playful with it.

Playful or anal, depends on your perspective. Again, I would suggest the latter. I'm quite sure Warner/Reprise won't let him steer the good ship Mac again. If they work on a new studio album it'll be all change in the production department. Clapton is not experimental now, I would agree. He certainly was for many years but my argument with him is a feeling for music and jamming, not studio experimentation. That was Jimi's department, you could draw a parrallel between Jimi and Buckingham more. Although Jimi could play the blues as well as anybody, again, he chose not to.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I don't feel sorry for him. He makes his own choices. And he's as brilliant as a popbassist as he is as a bluesbassist.

John's versatile for sure. He could put a bassline to anything. Do I think he gets the vibe with Lindsey like he did with Peter or Clapton? No I don't. Not for a second. If you read between the lines of John's interviews it's very apparent. He's too much of a gent to actually say it (plus working with LB pays the bills!)

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Lindsey and Peter were both way more experimental in writing. They share a lot more than you want to receive. Someone who writes green manalishi and someone who writes So Afraid. Someone who writes Albatross and someone who writes DW Suite. The spectrum of their musical approach is so much broader.

Again you are diverting me away from my arguement. I'm talking about live interaction. Instant, at that moment abilities and feeling. I'm not talking about studio experimentation. I think you need to read the thread again my fellow European. Any f**kwit can spend years in a studio, hit cardboard boxes and sit on his own long enough to convince himself something sounds great when everybody else is out on the road interacting with others. Lindsey has done some very radical studio work. I love Play In The Rain for example. Why hasn't he been performing that, or say Loving Cup live? He can't translate it live thats why. Lindsey is very experimental, as was Hendrix. I would say from a studio point Lindsey was far more experimental than all the artists mentioned, maybe with the exception of Gilmour in his prime. BUT, this is not what I'm getting at and you know it. The best way of admitting defeat is to change the subject. Admit it and we'll move on.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I meant the whole album

I agree with that too...

[Chester]

I don't see why you are tyring to convince each other that Lindsey's songs do or do not have blues influences. He obviously doesn't have have any roots in blues and we all know it. He doesn't belong in the same sentences with blues. And in my opinion, he's not really that great of a lead palyer like the Claptons of the world are. He just that little old master finger picker who sounds like multiple guitarists when he plays. That's what he's good at and comparing him to all these other "virtuosos" is pretty pointless because he is unlike any others. He's better at what he does than anyone else and everyone else is better at what they do than him. Just my take on the man named Lindsey.

[Chester]

Originally Posted by madformac

Well Come is something a 5 year old could play.

Incorrect sir! John can barely play it!

[wondergirl9847]

Originally Posted by madformac

Lindsey is a different animal. It's like he still feels the need to prove himself.

The whole world worships Hendrix, Gilmour, Page, etc., but people don't really know who Lindsey is. "Who's she?" Of course, he's trying to prove himself, he's not respected like those other guys.

[tuigirl]

thing is does he need to prove himself? why? He's good just the way he is

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Chester

I don't see why you are tyring to convince each other that Lindsey's songs do or do not have blues influences. He obviously doesn't have have any roots in blues and we all know it. He doesn't belong in the same sentences with blues. And in my opinion, he's not really that great of a lead palyer like the Claptons of the world are. He just that little old master finger picker who sounds like multiple guitarists when he plays. That's what he's good at and comparing him to all these other "virtuosos" is pretty pointless because he is unlike any others. He's better at what he does than anyone else and everyone else is better at what they do than him. Just my take on the man named Lindsey.

A very astute and correct observation but it ruins our little arguement!!!

Trust someone to come on behave in a proper way!!!

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Chester

Incorrect sir! John can barely play it!

John plays the bass. he's not hitting a guitar like a naughty child in a guitar store.. Then rolling around on the floor..

[Chester]

Originally Posted by madformac

Maybe he thinks he will top Rumours if he tweaks it long enough

I have to quote you one last time! I think it was you that said something like this somewhere in another post, that Lindsey wants commercial success badly and is afraid of not topping Rumours. That is an argument that confuses me beyond belief. When has he ever done something that was all about him trying to acheive great commercial success? As recently as the Destiny Rules documentrry, he was talking all about how he didn't care if the album sold well, as long as the right people heard it, and most importantly as long as it turned out the way he wanted. In fact, he has said numerous times that he doesn't particularly like Rumours. If he had wanted to reach that level of commercial success again, Rumours 2 back in 1979 would have been a darn good way to do it, or in any years since then, really.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

The whole world worships Hendrix, Gilmour, Page, etc., but people don't really know who Lindsey is. "Who's she?" Of course, he's trying to prove himself, he's not respected like those other guys.

Christy. As I explained earlier. He can't be experimental and boundary pushing AND be commercially successful. The other guys have sold more albums and as a result get the praise. Because of what he does it won't happen. But he gets upset by what to me seems an obvious fact. Maybe it's the root of his problems. He doesn't need to prove himself. He should live with the level he has achieved. But he can't. He's an egomanic.

A very good friend of ours said to me yesterday LBs problem is he acts like an unsigned young artist at times and the big rockstar at other times..

It's this power struggle in his head that stops him from accepting his position in the rock world IMO.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by madformac

Christy. As I explained earlier. He can't be experimental and boundary pushing AND be commercially successful. The other guys have sold more albums and as a result get the praise. Because of what he does it won't happen. But he gets upset by what to me seems an obvious fact. Maybe it's the root of his problems. He doesn't need to prove himself. He should live with the level he has achieved. But he can't. He's an egomanic.

A very good friend of ours said to me yesterday LBs problem is he acts like an unsigned young artist at times and the big rockstar at other times..

It's this power struggle in his head that stops him from accepting his position in the rock world IMO.

that is true. i love him.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Chester

I have to quote you one last time! I think it was you that said something like this somewhere in another post, that Lindsey wants commercial success badly and is afraid of not topping Rumours. That is an argument that confuses me beyond belief. When has he ever done something that was all about him trying to acheive great commercial success? As recently as the Destiny Rules documentrry, he was talking all about how he didn't care if the album sold well, as long as the right people heard it, and most importantly as long as it turned out the way he wanted. In fact, he has said numerous times that he doesn't particularly like Rumours. If he had wanted to reach that level of commercial success again, Rumours 2 back in 1979 would have been a darn good way to do it, or in any years since then, really.

RIGHT.

I'm going to explain this once more and for the final time. Lindsey is a human contradiction.

He wants and craves the praise but has a problem accepting it. The root of it lies in Stevie's solo career. She has had a successful and acclaimed solo career. Sold many records and most of her songs are mainstream. Lindsey's first solo attempt was relatively mainstream but not the commercial success he maybe wanted. After the success of the eponymous album and Rumours he probably thought that he could push some boundaries with Tusk and get away with it because of the previous successes. To a degree he did. It sold millions but was still percieved as a flop because it didn't capture the public like Rumours. It was brave of Lindsey but it also started his path to self destruction.

After the so called "flop" of Tusk and the lack of commercial praise for Law and Order, combined with Stevie's success with Bella Donna Lindsey would have felt both dismayed and pissed off, he had been down three times, so to speak. So, after the reasonably mainstream approach of Law And Order failed, with Go Insane he did what he wanted to do. It was radical, unique and very experimental and if I may say so, quite brilliant too. I'm sure he felt it wasn't going to be successful but I'm sure he still wanted it to be, commercially anyway. Despite his feelings he was still hurt when it sold as he probably predicted. Tango was to be a solo project, you can hear some of his experimental style here but it was held back and "mainstreamed" for the sake of Fleetwood Mac. It sold pretty well and I think this pissed him off too. The fact you could put "Fleetwood Mac" on it and it would sell.

So his way of dealing with his commercial failures is to say he's tried to stay true to his musical sense and stay experimental and not to "sell out". It's his standard answer to the critics when if he had the praise he surely wanted it would not be an issue. The problem with this is he is a multi millionaire successful rockstar so he can't play the poor underdog nobody understands. He is richer and more famous than probably 98% of all artists on the planet. He cannot play the experimentalist and then the successful rockstar too and expect to be taken seriously. It's petulant and childish. He makes the music he wants to make for those "300,000" that want it yet he is also willing to jump on the Rumours gravytrain to make the money too.

He should admit to this, say f**k it, I'll use my solo career to do my own thing and Mac to pay the bills. Then he might get more due praise.

[wondergirl9847]

I get what you're saying, J. He wants to be weird and successful, but you can't be both. It sucks, but people want safe sh*t...all the time. Safe is cool, but I love when he gets crazy weird like GI, Time Bomb Town and Red Rover, stuff like that, but most people aren't like Gerald and I. Right, G?

You are 100% right with the whole Stevie thing. The fact that she was super successful was crushing to him and that ego of his. Of course he's childish and egotistical. She is too. They were both raised in a perfect environment, spoiled rotten, etc. I know my own kind.

I still love his music more than words can say.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I get what you're saying, J. He wants to be weird and successful, but you can't be both. It sucks, but people want safe sh*t...all the time. Safe is cool, but I love when he gets crazy weird like GI, Time Bomb Town and Red Rover, stuff like that, but most people aren't like Gerald and I. Right, G? .

I'm in the select group that loves Time Bomb Town. I love the whole GI album but I'm not keen on Red Rover but I love Shut Us Down. No doubt Gerald will reaffirm his suggestion I have s**t for brains..

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

You are 100% right with the whole Stevie thing. The fact that she was super successful was crushing to him and that ego of his. Of course he's childish and egotistical. She is too. They were both raised in a perfect environment, spoiled rotten, etc.

It's basic psychology. Does anybody, deep down, really believe Lindsey is happy if his albums fail to sell, no matter what he records? No of course not. Is he even less happy if Stevies sell very well in comparison? Of course. The whole "tortured artist" front he portrays is his way of dealing with it in his own mind. (Am I starting to sound like Frasier? )

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I still love his music more than words can say.

Which is the most important thing. If it works for you great.

Despite what people may think, Lindsey's work is important to me. It's just it stimulates my brain more than my heart I guess.