liberals....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Bath was their money man. Who else is there?

Ohter than Bath - no one the media can find - and believe me they have looked as did I am sure MM. but all Bath gave was $50,000 which is nothing to the Bushes and certainly nothing to the BL's.

[Bella Figura]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Well, I did. I see fear, lots of fear. BTW, part of having a debate is to present an opposing viewpoint. Sitting back and digesting everything we are told has been happening for way too long in this country. I, for one, won't do it.

hey, I finally figured this out!!!!

I'm back...fear can be a great motivator but Wild Heart has not definitively (sp error) said this why she is a conservative but if that is the reason, so be it. Biologically, controlled Fear can lead people to do great things and ultimate survival...and our country and democracy itself is struggling for survival.

Dissention: Wild Heart made the Ann Coulter comment with her first post. a reread may be in order. I had to leave work but I did sign back on this evening at home as to not be accused of the "hit and run" post

[Wild Heart]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Smart girl.

Although, if you feel strongly about your convinctions, you should be able to withstand any onlslaught from anyone.

I'm beginning to see why there are so many disagreements and misunderstandings here. You hear only what you want to hear. You totally missed the whole point of my posts. It's not about whether or not I can withstand any onslaught, have a thick or thin skin or if my opinions are based on fear. I can take as well as dish with the best of them but I'm not going there on this board, especially about my views on Bush. It's not that I'm afraid to defend myself. I shouldn't have to defend myself. It's my opinion and you should respect it. I also said several times I did not want to discuss my reasons for supporting Bush and you should respect that as well but instead you keep provoking me hoping to start an arguement. Alot of you don't like Bush and I respect it. The point is there's no need to attack anyone who does not share the same political views (or any other view) as you do and make them feel like they're ignorant and without value.

I'm sorry if I stirred something up here but I guess I've had enough of the crappy and disrespectful way people everywhere treat each other these days. People are no longer nice because it's the right way to treat people. And I'm sick of the bipolarization because of all the political nastiness in this country.

I also miss participating in threads here. There were several people here whose threads I always enjoyed but most of them seemed to be gone now. It makes me wonder about the reasons they left. This seems like such a hostile environment now.

As for those of you who think my opinions are fear based, that very well maybe true. I do fear for the safety of my friends and family and you should too. Whether you believe this administration or not, you cannot deny that there are people out there who want to kill you, me and our families and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. I do fear that there will be another attack on US soil before November to help sway the election just like in Spain.

I will leave you with something my mom has always told me - "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". Everyone on this God forsaken planet should stop and think about that phrase once in a while.

[Bella Figura]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Yeah. Did you actually have a point to make?

no, not really, except to express my own opinions. but I'm not making a point for anyone, I believe that people are smart enough to draw their own conclusions about the status of liberalism in this country today...

but here's one of my points: I've have been watching and listening on NPR to the 9/11 commision hearings as best I can and Rudy said it best. Every agency can learn from mistakes that happened that day but the responsibility for those attacks are on OBL conscience, he is the buck stops here guy, IT IS HIS FAULT...hopefully with this election, we can get back to our true business which is to stop this guy and his ilk...and when a candidate comes out strongly that this is his/her #1 priority, then they will get my vote...

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by Wild Heart

I shouldn't have to defend myself. It's my opinion and you should respect it.

I agree with you. All of what we post in the political discussions are opinions. In fact, all of politics is opinion. (in my opinion ) Al-Qaeda members flew two airplanes in the WTC. That's a fact. What we could have done to prevent it, whose fault it is, whether it could have been prevented, are all opinions. They cannot be proven. I do not think MM's documentary is fact. Not because I believe everything in there is a lie, but because anyone can twist anything to make his/her point. I also believe there are always two sides to every story. So whose side is "right?" Neither. It's a matter of opinion. Democrats and Republicans simply have differing opinions; neither side is right.

I try not to say anyone's thoughts are wrong or incorrect in these politcial discussions. I am respectful toward viewpoints different from my own; I may disagree with them vehemently, but that doesn't make them wrong. I have seen/read several things in these threads that made my blood boil, but I usually do not respond because everyone has the right to his/her opinion. Maybe I should jump in there more often. If I did, I'd hope that my thoughts would be taken seriously and with respect. I'm sure I've offended others too with my remarks. I hope that I have not come across malicious to anyone.

I like and respect all that join in the political discussions. Hopefully, we can debate in the future without anyone feeling belittled for his/her ideas.

[Johnny Stew]

Yowsa... this is a doozy of a thread. I didn't see it when it was first posted, and now it's damn-near impossible to read every post from all 13 pages.

Anyway, people can say all they want about "liberals"... but I'm still proud to be called a liberal.
Social issues are what I care most about. Taxes, social security... that stuff takes a backseat.

I do not wish to see this country "whitewashed" by social conservatism and religious zealots.
Folks get up-in-arms about the Muslims and their extreme religious views, and yet completely overlook the very extreme religious views that are overtaking OUR country. Masked as "patriotism."

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face... no one... not even the leader of MY country... has the right to tell ME what I'm supposed to believe or who I'M allowed to marry.
And as biased as it may sound, I still firmly believe that a vote for George W. Bush is a vote for intolerance and prejudice.

If someone wants an extreme conservative in the White House, I can't stop them from voting for him, and I most likely can't change their minds.
All I can hope is that someday they'll wake up and see that life isn't all about who's going to raise or lower your taxes.

Johnny "Proud To Be A Bleeding Heart Liberal" Stew

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

All I can hope is that someday they'll wake up and see that life isn't all about who's going to raise or lower your taxes.

Foul!!!!!!

Both R's and D's passed the initial tax cuts. So, do not lay all that on W and the R's - but I admit, they put the bill forward Actually, at the time, it was okay to most because we were not at war and we allegedly had a huge surplus!! Not any more though.

In any event, and I am sure Dissention will chime in with the sky is falling logic Dissention loves - a significant number of economist inlcuding Alan Greenspan, the tax cuts have helped the economy on the road to recovery. Now, if we could jest temper W's Democratesq spending and avoid the already mounting deficit from getting larger, we may be alright But, W spends with no end in sight and we will watch our economy decline

[Sugar]

Oh come on! This is a political debate thread! Started with a very deliberate and inflammatory piece called "Why I Hate Liberals"! If you enter into it, people involved in it are going to assume you're entering the debate. If you want to state your opinions without the bother of defending them, start the "This is my opinion, don't anyone challange me" thread.

I think this is a case of just what side of the coin you're on. I remember some very viscious rhetoric going around by the conservatives (not on this board) when Clinton was in office. Godie, Carne, and dissention, as well as Strand are all very passionate as well as very well informed. They also have an established rapport, something they have all taken the time to inform everyone of.

Does some of it get a little heated for me? Sure. Do I think things get a little ridiculous sometimes? Sure. Do I feel a little outmatched? Definitely!
But I rarely see any of them get outright mean. I mean, I think it's a little much to compare Bush to Hitler, but they can if they want. Why? Not because I can defend my position, but because I'm comfortable with my position.

Again, if you don't want to debate, then don't enter the debate!

[Sugar]

Originally Posted by Wild Heart

As for those of you who think my opinions are fear based, that very well maybe true. I do fear for the safety of my friends and family and you should too. Whether you believe this administration or not, you cannot deny that there are people out there who want to kill you, me and our families and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. I do fear that there will be another attack on US soil before November to help sway the election just like in Spain.

I will leave you with something my mom has always told me - "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". Everyone on this God forsaken planet should stop and think about that phrase once in a while.

I found these two paragraphs to be the most interesting. These are fears everyone has, and if people oppose Bush it's not because they don't think our lives are in danger from terrorists. It's because they think he's missing the target. Sure he's acting, but is he taking the right actions? Or are his actions making things worse? I only address this because you make it sound like people who want Bush out don't believe we are in danger. That is not true. Not by a long shot.

And I'll just say the first thing I thought of when I read your last paragraph was how we invaded Iraq. Your mom is absolutely right.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I know that. What I referred to was there are parents, wives, spouses, significant others ( ) that not only are proud of their injured or deceased person's service, but also believe in the war in Iraq. Yet, MM consciously chose not to show that point of view If he had, it would have lessened his point he was trying to make. That takes away from the point IMO. That is why I conclude this is propoganda as opposed to news. Again, he readily admits it is not news - so how am I wrong or taking anything away from his concept of his work?

It's his point of view. Make your own movie if you don't like it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Sugar

I found these two paragraphs to be the most interesting. These are fears everyone has, and if people oppose Bush it's not because they don't think our lives are in danger from terrorists. It's because they think he's missing the target. Sure he's acting, but is he taking the right actions? Or are his actions making things worse? I only address this because you make it sound like people who want Bush out don't believe we are in danger. That is not true. Not by a long shot.

And I'll just say the first thing I thought of when I read your last paragraph was how we invaded Iraq. Your mom is absolutely right.

I agree. I think W's actions have been to placate Americans. He has not captured OBL, the guy who did 9/11. His stragegy to make Iraq beacon of American aptitude nad Democracy in the Middle East may work, but the odds are heavily stacked against it srring its fruition. I for one hope it works. I think it would be great if it did. But, I am scared it canot overcome the odds against it. In any event, i have not agreed with W's polices and theories. But, I will give him A for effort. At least he did something even if I disagree with it

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

It's his point of view. Make your own movie if you don't like it.

I agree and that is what I was saying That is why it is not really my place to fault him in his propoganda

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Foul!!!!!!

Both R's and D's passed the initial tax cuts. So, do not lay all that on W and the R's - but I admit, they put the bill forward

Uhm... Jason... there's nothing to cry foul about.
I wasn't saying WHO does, or doesn't, raise or lower taxes... I just said that I hope someday people will see that taxes are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to why we should (or shouldn't) vote for a politician.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Sugar

Oh come on! This is a political debate thread! Started with a very deliberate and inflammatory piece called "Why I Hate Liberals"! If you enter into it, people involved in it are going to assume you're entering the debate. If you want to state your opinions without the bother of defending them, start the "This is my opinion, don't anyone challange me" thread.

Thank you! That 's what happens in a dictatorship and not the United States Of America, land of the free, home of the brave. Sorry, I got carried away with the last part.

BTW, there is no factual information contained in that hit piece in the begining of this thread.
Hate is indeed an ugly thing. Some of you might find this hard to believe but I don't even "hate" President Bush. The tone of that first post is, well, hateful. And for what? People who honestly care enough about their views of where this country is headed and aren't afraid to say something about it?

'LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Uhm... Jason... there's nothing to cry foul about.
I wasn't saying WHO does, or doesn't, raise or lower taxes... I just said that I hope someday people will see that taxes are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to why we should (or shouldn't) vote for a politician.

You said:
______________________________________________________________
If someone wants an extreme conservative in the White House, I can't stop them from voting for him, and I most likely can't change their minds.
All I can hope is that someday they'll wake up and see that life isn't all about who's going to raise or lower your taxes.

Johnny "Proud To Be A Bleeding Heart Liberal" Stew
______________________________________________________________

I took that to mean the R's are the ones who want to lower taxes because they are the ones the far left labels extreme conservative like i submit W is. I did not know you included D's in the category of "extreme conservative" --- but what do I know In any even and whatever you meant, they both voted for it so they both fit in the definition