Fire Imus?

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

while I do agree, here's something to chew on.

when I went to visit my grandmother in the hospital I was walking up to the door and there was a group of black guys standing around and they said "hey, is you a faggot? you is a faggot, faggot." and started laughing. it was weird because here I was going to visit my grandmother after having open heart surgery and these assholes are sitting there saying that ****. they had no clue why I was there...I could've been visiting someone on their deathbed. I mean, this wasn't any random store to be catcalling...it was a freaking hospital.

now, I had on a ballcap, a black jacket and jeans and glasses. I'm still not sure what tipped them off...srsly. I know I can have my moments, but I really thought I looked like **** so I obviously didn't look gay (that's a joke...ha ha). I didn't pay any attention to them. so, of course, I played the card and acted like a little bitch and went inside and told the guard.

Honey, your homoradiation is at such a blazing level that even Helen Keller would be signing, "Whazzup Mary?" if you came within a hundred feet of her.....

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Honey, your homoradiation is at such a blazing level that even Helen Keller would be signing, "Whazzup Mary?" if you came within a hundred feet of her.....

bitch.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

while I do agree, here's something to chew on.

when I went to visit my grandmother in the hospital I was walking up to the door and there was a group of black guys standing around and they said "hey, is you a faggot? you is a faggot, faggot." and started laughing . . . .

That is awful

I am glad you tok some action.

People mostly do not do that in my presence and get away with it. I so call them on it. For example, I was in the airport the other day in Atlanta and this guy, who weighed 300+ pounds, was sitting next to me with his obese family. CNN was on and the report was on some gay issue. The guy turns to his wife and loudly remarks that gay people are ruining his country and AIDS will break the nation finanically. I let the first one go, but the second one got me to respond in a very straightforward tone that HIS and HIS families obesity would likey cause this country far more money and not all gay people have AIDS. Moreover, if I called him a Bubba and his family a bunch of fat ass red necks with no education, he would not like it. He apologized. I think maybe I enlightened him just a little and for that moment.

I think if many gay people, black people, etc. could find ways to do that when people heckle them, the world might advance. Sadly, there is the ever present fear that people will beat the hell out of you, so that is a deterrent.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think if many gay people, black people, etc. could find ways to do that when people heckle them, the world might advance. Sadly, there is the ever present fear that people will beat the hell out of you, so that is a deterrent.

Sure thing. Next time someone calls me a dyke or a queer (and doesn't even insult or speak directly to me!), I'll just find some reason to throw that hate back at them unnecessarily, as two wrongs clearly make a right. It wouldn't suffice just to point out that their comment is ignorant/hateful; I must attack them for being fat, or foreign, or Pentecostal, or whatever I can pull out that might have the same effect as what they say. Certainly these exchanges will eliminate all the varied hateful and cruel sentiments in society.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Sure thing. Next time someone calls me a dyke or a queer, I'll just find some reason to throw that hate back at them unnecessarily, as two wrongs clearly make a right. It wouldn't suffice just to point out that their comment is ignorant/hateful; I must attack them for being fat, or foreign, or Pentecostal, or whatever I can pull out that might have the same effect as what they say. Certainly these exchanges will eliminate all the varied hateful and cruel sentiments in society.

I did not throw hate back at them.

I pointed out that his obesity would likely cost the nation more in health costs than AIDS would. I noted to him that obesity and the health related problems were, I believe, the largest epidemic in this country.

I think you think I said this in a finger snapping way, which I did not. It was more conversational.

At the end of the conersation, he apologized

[Für Elise]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Sure thing. Next time someone calls me a dyke or a queer (and doesn't even insult or speak directly to me!), I'll just find some reason to throw that hate back at them unnecessarily, as two wrongs clearly make a right. It wouldn't suffice just to point out that their comment is ignorant/hateful; I must attack them for being fat, or foreign, or Pentecostal, or whatever I can pull out that might have the same effect as what they say. Certainly these exchanges will eliminate all the varied hateful and cruel sentiments in society.

hey whoever youare, thankyou for pointing out the DAMN OBVIOUS. homophobia should be stamped out but delicately and not by replacing it with hatred toward other groups. you think about how it feels as a gay person but then strand doesn't want to think about how it feels as an obese person probably feels crushed (not cause the realise they said the wrong thing) but because they're fat. i thinnk he should have said something but more delicatelyand not so insulting. now I'm loling imainigng that if they were black he would have told them off and used the "black people cost this country more" thing on them.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Für Elise

now I'm loling imainigng that if they were black he would have told them off and used the "black people cost this country more" thing on them.

Yeah, talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place there.

Oh, and I'm Hillary. I used to frequent this place but now I'm just a troll. I'm not really a self-professed troll; it's just that the term has been used in reference to me so many times that I figure I'll just take it.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by carrie721

ok, i read it. i understand his comment in the context of the point he was making; i don't like it, but i understand it.

seems to me that if people of any "disenfranchised" group want to not be seen as victims, they should quit acting like victims ... is that crazy? nobody's comments about lesbians, women, overweight people, or people who are prematurely going grey diminish me as a person. it's a choice to feel/act that way.

He wasn't playing the victim. He was stating the truth--whichi is that queers are second-class citizens. And that second-class status has a very real and very harmful impact on our lives. It's easy to just say ignore all the hateful terms thrown our away, but I think true empowerment is challenging them every step of the way and pointing out how they are linked with policies and actions that keep gays in the second-class category. Maybe you won't change the person who spews the comments, but you have a chance to educate others. I've been taking this **** on for almost 20 years now and I've seen people change and understand the impact of their words and actions.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

He wasn't playing the victim. He was stating the truth--whichi is that queers are second-class citizens. And that second-class status has a very real and very harmful impact on our lives. It's easy to just say ignore all the hateful terms thrown our away, but I think true empowerment is challenging them every step of the way and pointing out how they are linked with policies and actions that keep gays in the second-class category. Maybe you won't change the person who spews the comments, but you have a chance to educate others. I've been taking this **** on for almost 20 years now and I've seen people change and understand the impact of their words and actions.

Exactly and well said. See, we agree again

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

He wasn't playing the victim. He was stating the truth--whichi is that queers are second-class citizens. And that second-class status has a very real and very harmful impact on our lives. It's easy to just say ignore all the hateful terms thrown our away, but I think true empowerment is challenging them every step of the way and pointing out how they are linked with policies and actions that keep gays in the second-class category. Maybe you won't change the person who spews the comments, but you have a chance to educate others. I've been taking this **** on for almost 20 years now and I've seen people change and understand the impact of their words and actions.

I agree with everything here. At the same time, I've given it some thought since Carrie first said she didn't approve of the way he wrote that article, and I figure there are different ways of dealing. I know it's obvious, but I had to start looking at it in the context of another minority group, I suppose, and I thought about Zora Neale Hurston and Richard Wright and how the latter habitually crucified the former for not talking and writing about the race problem enough. Not to give everyone some unwanted history lesson, but she didn't see any point in writing about how she (and others) were and are disadvantaged for being black, and Wright (and other critics/writers) could not understand why she didn't consider it some responsibility of hers to constantly remind everyone of the injustices committed against her race. If I look for (glaring) parallels, then it's a matter of personal preference, and not everyone will address such issues in the same way. I'm more like Wright (perhaps only in this sense), but I wouldn't criticize a Hurston. Er...does that make sense?

All of this isn't directed at you Ryan, though I'm agreeing that he was just stating a fact. I guess it's just that some people would choose not to start off with a statement like that and would avoid a tactic like that.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Er...does that make sense?

Definitely....interesting points. And certainly everyone is going to have their own approach to dealing with homophobia, etc.

I keep thinking of the Rutgers team's situation. They could have handled it the way Sparky/Carrie seem to be arguing, which is either ignoring the comments or just saying who the fukc cares what some crusty old guy has to say. Or they can do what they did--they explained how it affected them personally and why the comments were damaging and racist.

Either way is a reasonable response. In my opinion, neither way gives power to Imus. The way the Rutgers women responded took away power from him by focusing attention on the harmful impact of racial comments. They became the educators and they took the power.

[seeker007nmss]

If this has already been covered, sorry, but I didn't go through all 11 pages yet Rap lyrics has been saying far worse for far longer and nothing was ever done. Yes, what Imus said was stuiped, but far worse was said without any uproar. If you are going to clean house, then add a few record execs and musicians to the out-of-work pile.

[stargazer99]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree. And - I particularly love the story about the crazy "christians" who came to your house that time and freaked when they found out you were a bi racial couple

Out of curiosity and not in a mean way, you all are successful - do you think you should get more business oran extra leg up based on your husband's race? Would that help alleviate the racial tension you feel?

I swear I am not being hateful. I am just curious to get a first hand opinion

And - how are ya?

I don't believe I particularly feel racial tension. We've been pretty lucky in that we haven't had too much hate thrown at us (at least to our faces) for being an interracial couple. The story I told about the crazy Christian lady actually had nothing to do with my husband's race. She came to our door because we had a sign in our yard to vote against the gay marriage ban. I wasn't home at the time, so my husband had the "pleasure" of dealing with her crazy ass, as she railed on about how our sign was wrong, and that we need to vote for the ban because the bible says so, and the gays are coming after us all. I joked that she probably would have passed out on our porch if we'd both been home and she discovered that not only are we "homo lovers", but we are also committing crimes against humanity by mixing the races. But my post had nothing to do with I myself feeling "racial tension".

The point of my post was simply that while this country has come a long way since the civil rights movement, we still have a long way to go. Discrimination does still exist, and it's more prevalent than some realize or would like to believe. The fact that it took until the year 2002 for the last state (Alabama) to do away with the interracial marriage ban, not to mention that 40% of voters were against lifting that ban, perfectly illustrates that point. (BTW, I can easily believe that 40% of Alabamians(sp?) were against lifting the ban, since we once spent the night in Birmingham on our way to Florida. The disgust other diners felt toward us in a restaurant we ate at was palpable. I was seriously afraid they were going to harm us. Or, at the very least, that our server would spit in our food. I will never step foot in that state again. No offense meant to anyone here who is from Alabama.)

But it's not just the areas of the country where you expect that kind of thing to happen. I grew up in Chicago, which is pretty liberal. But it also is one of the most racially divided cities you'll find. I think we had more dirty looks and comments thrown our way while living there than we have since we moved to Texas, where I'd much more expect it.

Outside of being in an interracial marriage, I haven't experienced much discrimination based on my race. (And again, I haven't experienced an overwhelming amount of discrimination through my marriage.) As others have posted, I have had a few incidents of people of other races making derogatory comments against me because I'm white. But I don't think that can compare in any way to the discrimination many minorities experience. I've never heard one white person say they've been turned down for an apartment or house because of their color. It's happened to my husband, as well as many other minorities. I've actually had landlords brag to me about the fact that they won't rent to blacks when I've looked at apartments. During the time I was dating my husband, I moved from one apartment to another. I found out from my neighbor at my new apartment the landlord almost kicked me out after finding out my boyfriend was black. He went around to the other tenants and told them that if they were uncomfortable with it, he'd evict me.

As far as affirmative action, I suppose some might say they've been turned down for a job or promotion because of it, but I'd be willing to bet it happens far less than minorities being turned down based on their race. I really have no sympathy for whites who complain about being discriminated against due to race. (Straight) white males in particular have it easier than anybody when it comes to getting a job, house/apartment, promotion, etc. One or two cases of being "discriminated" against doesn't compare to being discriminated against on a regular basis due to the fact that you're a minority. And discrimination against minorities does happen more frequently than some whites realize.

As far as the whole "what about rappers using that language" argument, that doesn't wash either, IMO. While I think blacks who call other blacks the "N" word are doing a disservice to their race, I don't see how that ever makes it okay for someone like Don Imus to call a group of black women "nappy headed hos". Regardless of whether it was an attempt at a joke, or said with malice. How does one make the other okay? Same goes for the "there's too much political correctness in this country" argument. How is refraining from using racist remarks, or being offended by racist remarks, being "too PC"? That is a ridiculous argument, IMO.

Out of curiosity and not in a mean way, you all are successful - do you think you should get more business oran extra leg up based on your husband's race?

While we are certainly not poor, we are far from wealthy, either. My husband started his own catering company a couple years ago while out of work, and struggled to make money from it. We had very little start up money to put into the business up front, and most of the profits went back into the business, with little to nothing left over to pay the bills. He considered applying for loans (and grants, I believe?) geared toward minorities. In the end, we were so far in debt already, and were struggling to pay our bills and mortgage, so he gave the business up and went back to IT consulting contracts. But if he had applied for such loans or grants, I don't see that as using his race to get a leg up. As a woman, I could apply for similar loans/grants to start a business. And I believe there are also the same for small business owners in general. I don't see anything wrong with helping "the little/average guy" try to make it in business by giving incentives.

Same goes for money for college. Yes, there is money set aside specifically for blacks. But there is just about every kind of financial assistance out there imaginable. When I was applying for scholarships, I applied for one for Italian Americans. My mom's parents are from Italy, but she has lived her whole life here. My dad's side of the family isn't from Italy. But I was still eligible to apply for that money, and I did. Same difference, IMO. With the cost of college, it's in every student's best interest to apply for everything they may be eligible for.

What I do find offensive is things like the government giving tax breaks to companies for sending jobs overseas. I have a lot of friends who have lost jobs that were sent elsewhere. And I myself will probably lose mine the same way if I stay with the company I'm at now. I'm in the IT department, and their goal is to eventually have 75% of our IT work done in India. I don't necessarily blame the companies for taking advantage of that tax break. (Well, maybe I do resent it to some degree. ;-) But I do resent the government for making it so attractive for companies to send jobs overseas, particularly when we have so many people in the U.S. out of work. And also for giving business to their already wealthy friends' companies, ala Halliburton. That to me is a travesty. Giving incentives to minorities to build business for themselves isn't, IMO.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^^^

OMG - thanks for that very informative reply. Just goes to show you that you learn something new everyday.

As for companies getting those tax breaks - I say lynch the bastards. I am all for helping out other countries, etc. -- but those should be, for the most part, American jobs and taking advantage, for the most part, of cheaper, in some cases almost slave, wages in other, less developed countries is a travesty Moreover, have you ever actually gotten one of the Indians on the phone -- maybe they are not all as bad at English as the ones I have gotten, but the ones i have gotten were not able to communicate with me very well. I did not want to be rude or cause a scene because that is that person's job, but I usually have to ask for another person, preferably one on America. So, I cannot see how that benefits the companies to any significant degree.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by stargazer99

Same goes for money for college. Yes, there is money set aside specifically for blacks. But there is just about every kind of financial assistance out there imaginable. When I was applying for scholarships, I applied for one for Italian Americans. My mom's parents are from Italy, but she has lived her whole life here. My dad's side of the family isn't from Italy. But I was still eligible to apply for that money, and I did. Same difference, IMO. With the cost of college, it's in every student's best interest to apply for everything they may be eligible for.

Right now, If I wanted to go back to school I can go to U of A (University of Arkansas at Fayetteville) almost free of charge since I am on the Cherokee Nation tribal roles.

Maybe someday...