Diana Krall's Christmas Songs

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Then stop saying you think everyone should have a choice when you actions belie the veracity of that statement. In other words, while you may on some level think it is all about personal choice, your actions in no way support that false thought.

You seemingly want to say things like that and then want everyone to go "ahhhh isn't that nice - he is so open minded" - I think you will find people are fonder of the truth than being mere placaters to some false notion you have. They will be this way because you have no right to tell me how to live my life if i am not hurting anyone.

Jason, I'm not telling you how to live your life...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

You don't know anything about me Jason. You are proving to be an individual with some agenda out to "get that Brandon boy"...I can't say for sure because there is no way to tell your tone, but that is the way it seems...

If I am so uniformed then just let it go...

I am an idiot and I don't know anything...is that better?

Again with the "I want to say anything I like and you better not call me out on it" cr*p that you know will not fly around here.

Again, I base all of my comments on your posts here, which requires no actual knowledge of your personal life.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by dissention

In substitution for nothing. Why do humans possess the pathological need to believe in a higher power?

Oh boy. Now this thread is interesting. Unfortunately, I need to go and actually get some work done. You've got a couple of factors here:

First, before the term "science" actually meant anything, people often invented god/gods to explain how the world worked. Just basic physical phenomena. But going along with that, you also had people inventing gods to explain how the world worked on a more physical level. As Brandon mentioned, most people like to have a sense of purpose and a sense of meaning, an idea that life has a point and a goal to reach toward, and gods often provide that. Now, why many people can't seem to find that sense of meaning and purpose solely within themselves and instead must project it out to a "higher power"... well, I think that's a very long and complicated psychological study of culture over the past few thousand years.

But I think this "purpose" thing also ties into something else. As paradoxical as it may seem given the religion v. science dialectic that often exists, I think belief in god also satisies the human desire for logic and order in the world. Our brains like logic and order, and on some level, the idea that the universe simply exists doesn't satisfy that. The idea of god provides a mental order to the world for many people.

Now, if you ask me, those are two huge paradoxes:

1) You've got the egotistical idea that "I as a human being must have some kind of purpose beyond simply living and dying" coupled with the self-negating idea that "This purpose cannot exist within myself but rather must exist in some high power."

2) You've got the human tendency toward logic and order juxtaposed against science which somehow fails to provide that logic and order in a completely satisfying way (probably largely due to that desire for purpose expressed in #1).

All right, I really have other things I need to be doing. Everybody else, discuss!

[GODDESS6]

well lovely boys, i have to go back to wrk for awhile , this was fun & have a great rest of the day!!!~ ~

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Again with the "I want to say anything I like and you better not call me out on it" cr*p that you know will not fly around here.

Again, I base all of my comments on your posts here, which requires no actual knowledge of your personal life.

I thought I already apologized for the stuff I had said in the past. I also said that I was confused and wanted to stay out of politics...So I apologize for what I have said...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Jason, I'm not telling you how to live your life...

Of course you are and that you say you do not know how after all this time here is a farce

Again, putting the Ten Commandments in front of a courthouse and saying THIS IS THE LAW is forcing it down peoples' throats because the decalogue says I shall have no other gods above God and only two of them are the actual law.

Making people say "Under God" in the POA is forcing it down the throat and that is why it was put there in the first place and after the fact.

Making Federal and State benefits available only to heterosexual couples in one form of Christian marriage (one man and one woman) is forcing it down the throat. Why is it only good Christians get these benefits? Why are they not availble to non Christians or rather people who do not adhere to that limited version of marriage or whatever you want to call it?

There are many others, but those will do for now.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

How is the Ten Commandments in a courthouse forcing you to believe anything?

Why should my tax dollars go to supporting religious beliefs that I do not hold? Why should anyone's tax dollars be spent in such a manner? Is the idea of the separation of church and state lost on you?

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And I don't think you are forced to say the pledge either?

Why was "God" added to it in the first place? Shouldn't a national pledge of allegiance to the United States of America be something that one can recite without having to pledge their belief in a God? Should someone be made to feel excluded because it includes the beliefs of religious types and completely thumbs it's nose at their beliefs?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I thought I already apologized for the stuff I had said in the past. I also said that I was confused and wanted to stay out of politics...So I apologize for what I have said...

I refer only to the stuff you said this and last week. I need go no further back than that. Are you apologizing now for things said then as well as last Winter?

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

But why choose to believe in nothing. In other words, if you don't even believe in a higher power, then why does it hurt to at least try to comprehend?

Do you recognize the speciousness of that argument? There's absolutely no logic there.

You ask, "Why choose to believe in nothing?" The question doesn't make any more sense than, "Why choose to believe in something?"

I personally don't see any evidence of that something, and I'm able to live a happy and fulfilling life without attempting to believe in that something. Why should I attempt to believe it if I don't? (And similarly, why should you attempt not to believe it if you do? Doesn't matter to me. I'm not frightened or saddened by the idea of ultimate purposeless in the universe. Believe whatever you want.)

Also, I don't have to "try to comprehend" your Catholicism. I do comprehend it. I went to Catholic school for thirteen years, I know my Catholic theology.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Of course you are and that you say you do not know how after all this time here is a farce

Again, putting the Ten Commandments in front of a courthouse and saying THIS IS THE LAW is forcing it down peoples' throats because the decalogue says I shall have no other gods above God and only two of them are the actual law.

Making people say "Under God" in the POA is forcing it down the throat and that is why it was put there in the first place and after the fact.

Making Federal and State benefits available only to heterosexual couples in one form of Christian marriage (one man and one woman) is forcing it down the throat. Why is it only good Christians get these benefits? Why are they not availble to non Christians or rather people who do not adhere to that limited version of marriage or whatever you want to call it?

There are many others, but those will do for now.

This is the trap I keep falling in...

I'm done Jason...with politics...and talking about it with you.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Do you recognize the speciousness of that argument? There's absolutely no logic there.

You ask, "Why choose to believe in nothing?" The question doesn't make any more sense than, "Why choose to believe in something?"

I personally don't see any evidence of that something, and I'm able to live a happy and fulfilling life without attempting to believe in that something. Why should I attempt to believe it if I don't? (And similarly, why should you attempt not to believe it if you do? Doesn't matter to me. I'm not frightened or saddened by the idea of ultimate purposeless in the universe. Believe whatever you want.)

Also, I don't have to "try to comprehend" your Catholicism. I do comprehend it. I went to Catholic school for thirteen years, I know my Catholic theology.

Maybe it isn't logic. IDK? It was just a thought.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I would rather die and be disappointed, than think there was no God die and then be wrong.

That's a pretty cynical and un-Christian way to go about things, don't you think?

You're revealing the fear that lies at the root of your belief.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I refer only to the stuff you said this and last week. I need go no further back than that. Are you apologizing now for things said then as well as last Winter?

Yes. Because I no longer want this pathetic bickering known as politics to be a part of my life. I made the mistake yesterday of trying to continue with it when I said I wouldn't...I guess it was just too hard to quit cold turkey.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

This is the trap I keep falling in...

I'm done Jason...with politics...and talking about it with you.

Well, that is all good and well, but the minute you start your I think everyone should have a free choice about Faith crap - expect people to call you on it because that is not your position in application or in the real world.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

That's a pretty cynical and un-Christian way to go about things, don't you think?

You're revealing the fear that lies at the root of your belief.

How so? It was just simply my observation...How I look at it...not how I think anyone else should.