Securing our borders

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Lux

Did you read my post though? Who are you talking about taking America's aid? What aid? The aid is tiny, it's nothing to be proud of. America could really do a lot of good with aid, it could change the situation for an entire people, but it chooses not to. And another main factor is it's a large contributor for putting impoverished countries in the position anyway. I'm of the belief that no aid given to most African nations (it becomes more specific to circumstances, but in general) ever need be responded with a "thankyou". We owe them that money as inhabitants of the Earth and as those guilty of plunging them into the situations they are in. Aid? Don't kid yourself.

Lux, you are young and idealistic therefore all you think about is the good that SOMEONE should be doing and apparently you think America should be doing the Lion's share of humanitarian aid. But then again, America simply CANT help the entire world I certainly dont approve of genocide as many of you have discerned. But, my mom always taught me that charity begins at home and we have plenty of issues that could use some attention right HERE. As for your your assertion that our "aid is tiny", you are very much mistaken. America has consistently provided financial dollars to countries around the world for at least a century. When disasters strike, everyone looks to America to ante up the most. I for one am getting tired of that expectation.

as for being a rabid nationalist, I think I can safely say that I have criticized our government and our leaders quite pointedly. I have no problem with helping other nations. What I have a problem with is the automatic assumption that we MUST. Having said that, I believe that America is full of generous hearted people that donate for many international causes, aside from the aid the Government gives.

Finally, I am aware of the trend (most notably since the 80's) by the corporatocracy (yes Im almost done with THE BOOK!) to create financial dependence of third world countries. I think its despicable. I HATE HATE HATE multinationals and the banking monopolies. I wish there was a solution but I dont know what it is....

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I, for the most part, agree. I think we should give the money and not expect repayment, which we do imn many cases.

MY WORD - I agreed with Lux, Mary, and Diss in one day.

I am starting to get soft

or maybe you're nesting

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Lux -

Again, all reports indicate we give the most of anyone - and that is just the govt. and does not take into consideration individual and corporate donations, which are in the billions. Moreover, comparing America's GNP to any other country in the world is unfair because America's GNP is far larger than any other country and she has a HUGE population - I know you know that. But, you continue to use it as the one and only standard and when you do, you do not take into account private and corp. gifts. FInally, not all aid from America is loans and many times those loans are forgiven or some other method is achieved.

But, I guess you are right - we Americans are all stingy self centered jerks over here. In fact, I think we should stop our gifts as they are so paltry. Let's see where that gets the world

Finally, you never say anything nice about America. I think that shows your bias. I mean certainly, the amount we give helps at least one person somewhere

Tew shay.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . the Lion's share . . . .

I LOVE that expression. My great grandmother used to sign her letters using it like this:

You have the lion's share of my love

or

Sending you the lion's share of my love

or

With the lion's share of my love to you, I remain

___________________________________________

I thought that was just beautiful!

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I LOVE that expression. My great grandmother used to sign her letters using it like this:

You have the lion's share of my love

or

Sending you the lion's share of my love

or

With the lion's share of my love to you, I remain

___________________________________________

I thought that was just beautiful!

So do I

[strandinthewind]

Well, yes I am because I think corp.'s give money and the stats back me up. I am not talking about what you are talking about, which is I think the corp building in poor countries to hook them on their products. I am talking solely about gifts, like when Bill Gates' charity gave a billion or so to AIDS - that was a gift essentially from Microsoft.

In the end, I think America gives a huge amount of money. Could it be more - of course it could - but that applies to everyone and every country.

Also, I submit China is currently the world's largest polluter, but I could be wrong. AND - in a nutshell, America is not alone in ruining the world. All countries commercial interaction is doing that. I mean GM makes cars for Brazil because they buy them. AND most other countries do not have the emission controls we have. The black smoke coming out of most cars in most other countries I have seen is far worse than here. Of course, I think we (the world) should stop drilling for oil now - all drilling - stop it now. We would then be foreced to use the sun, hydrogen, etc. - all of which harm no one.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

I never meant to imply that America is alone.

Now hang on, you're wanting to claim corporation's good deed but not take on the destruction done by corporations? The would be like us suddenly claiming a donation in the name of News Corp as our own good deed despite us insisting it's not ours (which it isn't) on every other issue.

Well, no. I know corps have done bad things. But, we are talking about charity in the form of aid - which is different I mean I get that the US and every other country have done bad things, but those bad things do not obviate the aid given. But, you like to talk about them hand in hand

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, no. I know corps have done bad things. But, we are talking about charity in the form of aid - which is different I mean I get that the US and every other country have done bad things, but those bad things do not obviate the aid given. But, you like to talk about them hand in hand

I think they are hand in hand, too. America rapes other countries of everything they can, then gives aid in a fraction of the amount? You can't really keep them separate.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by dissention

Lux, you're fabulous. Truly.

Yes she is. I mean, I sometimes wish that I were actually crazy and this evil stuff isn't happening but it is. Because of extreme capitalist ideology this country just lets the weak drown and I think it's awful.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

Right, because the poorest countries were just created in debt. They have always existed in debt, nobody put them there.

If I steal everything you have and make you my servant on some pathetic wage, lend you money ocassionally so you don't starve to death and then make you work til you die to pay back that debt, I should not be considered giving if am persuaded to throw you a bit of aid. Not to mention the fact that it would probably take a news crew threatening to expose me for this 'good' to occur. You're talking about aid as if these countries were thrown into debt by some greater power. It's these corporations that you're going on about that do the damage, it's the wealthiest nations and their agendas.

[edit] Yes, like Amber said in a much more brief form.

I agree with you on this. I think we should give aid to countries not loan them money.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Lux

Right, because the poorest countries were just created in debt. They have always existed in debt, nobody put them there.

If I steal everything you have and make you my servant on some pathetic wage, lend you money ocassionally so you don't starve to death and then make you work til you die to pay back that debt, I should not be considered giving if am persuaded to throw you a bit of aid. Not to mention the fact that it would probably take a news crew threatening to expose me for this 'good' to occur. You're talking about aid as if these countries were thrown into debt by some greater power. It's these corporations that you're going on about that do the damage, it's the wealthiest nations and their agendas.

[edit] Yes, like Amber said in a much more brief form.

Thanks, lux. (does this mean I'm fabulous, too? Probably not. ) Anyway, well expressed here, I agree, of course.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

I think they are hand in hand, too. America rapes other countries of everything they can, then gives aid in a fraction of the amount? You can't really keep them separate.

Ooh, that makes you fabulous, too. You said it perfectly.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

I think they are hand in hand, too. America rapes other countries of everything they can, then gives aid in a fraction of the amount? You can't really keep them separate.

Well, it is not really America alone. It is the Global economy. I mean China has most of out debt At one point Japan owned a significant part of the US (at least in the larger cities) - less than 100 years ago the sun never set on the British empire. Corporations are not just American anymore - they are multinational. It is all interrelated.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Ooh, that makes you fabulous, too. You said it perfectly.

Is that all countries in the world? Are you saying we rape all those African countries for all their resources If so, which ones Mr. I Love to Bash America and Cannot be Bothered to Point Anything Good Out"

Again, I think since we are so loathesome, America should stop all of its paltry aid that is merely a product of the world destruction it has caused.

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, it is not really America alone. It is the Global economy. I mean China has most of out debt At one point Japan owned a significant part of the US (at least in the larger cities) - less than 100 years ago the sun never set on the British empire. Corporations are not just American anymore - they are multinational. It is all interrelated.

That's true. I'm mad at those other countries, too. But we have been the wealthiest for a long time, and in conjunction with The rise of industrialization, have been able to perform the largest scale rapeage. We also consume more and pollute more than the other industrialized nations. (yes, China is big now, with pollution, I know). Anyway, I'm not letting others off the hook, but I do think overall, we are the worst.