Destiny Rules documentary

[ricohv]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

He would have been replacing Bob Welch, though.

Here’s his 45 he recorded at Sound City around the time Buckingham Nicks were recording. They supposedly sing on “You’re the One” and Jim Keltner was on drums (the mix is similar to “Don’t Let Me Down Again”). It was even on Anthem.

You’re The One
https://youtu.be/fjxpn7gWAek

Love You Should Save
https://youtu.be/FryhDDB832c

Interesting! I never knew about this. Thank you!

[BigAl84]

I don't think Stevie ever had a years long plan to axe Lindsey etc. Not by a long shot. In fact, I think the fallout with Lindsey only became as big as it did because she had the right people around her stoking the fire, instead of being a reasonable voice (i.e her mother, Tom Petty etc)

We all know there was friction about the music they would walk out on stage to for Music Cares and then the on stage smirk. I think her anger combined with some sort of resentment about the Buckingham McVie project caused her to melt down. Irving and all the power players following the cash rallied around her. I'm sure Irving offered her plenty of reassurance of not needing Lindsey (Hey, we just did this with the Eagles!) She was encouraged to exercise her options and she pounced on the opportunity instead of taking a step back to reevaluate.

If she was that pissed about Music Cares, she's watched all of the footage from every angle. She eventually realized it was nearly the entire band joking around behind her, not just Lindsey. Instead of giving the finger to the whole band, she threw Lindsey under the bus because that would be easier to justify. Given their history, it's an easy out. Although, reading what I just wrote...I don't even feel confident she took the time to review the Music Cares footage before making any kind of decision.

So no, I do't think she had a long term plan. She's way too lazy to do that. All she needed was a few people to whisper what she wanted to hear/believe to make one of the biggest fumbles of the last half of her career.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I don't think Stevie ever had a years long plan to axe Lindsey etc. Not by a long shot. In fact, I think the fallout with Lindsey only became as big as it did because she had the right people around her stoking the fire, instead of being a reasonable voice (i.e her mother, Tom Petty etc)

We all know there was friction about the music they would walk out on stage to for Music Cares and then the on stage smirk. I think her anger combined with some sort of resentment about the Buckingham McVie project caused her to melt down. Irving and all the power players following the cash rallied around her. I'm sure Irving offered her plenty of reassurance of not needing Lindsey (Hey, we just did this with the Eagles!) She was encouraged to exercise her options and she pounced on the opportunity instead of taking a step back to reevaluate.

If she was that pissed about Music Cares, she's watched all of the footage from every angle. She eventually realized it was nearly the entire band joking around behind her, not just Lindsey. Instead of giving the finger to the whole band, she threw Lindsey under the bus because that would be easier to justify. Given their history, it's an easy out. Although, reading what I just wrote...I don't even feel confident she took the time to review the Music Cares footage before making any kind of decision.

So no, I do't think she had a long term plan. She's way too lazy to do that. All she needed was a few people to whisper what she wanted to hear/believe to make one of the biggest fumbles of the last half of her career.

Agree it was abrupt, too. But, I think things were indeed simmering since 1998.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by michelej1

The body can certainly differentiate between grief and exhilaration, between bad news and good. There’s a different kind of stress (joy excitement v. Worry and anxiety and depression) associated with giving birth and losing a child. The body does not react the same way to each situation.

To quote Dave Mason, we just disagree

I think the example of giving birth is too far from a heart attack to compare the two, even as a hypothetical example.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

I don't think Stevie ever had a years long plan to axe Lindsey etc. Not by a long shot. In fact, I think the fallout with Lindsey only became as big as it did because she had the right people around her stoking the fire, instead of being a reasonable voice (i.e her mother, Tom Petty etc)

We all know there was friction about the music they would walk out on stage to for Music Cares and then the on stage smirk. I think her anger combined with some sort of resentment about the Buckingham McVie project caused her to melt down. Irving and all the power players following the cash rallied around her. I'm sure Irving offered her plenty of reassurance of not needing Lindsey (Hey, we just did this with the Eagles!) She was encouraged to exercise her options and she pounced on the opportunity instead of taking a step back to reevaluate.

If she was that pissed about Music Cares, she's watched all of the footage from every angle. She eventually realized it was nearly the entire band joking around behind her, not just Lindsey. Instead of giving the finger to the whole band, she threw Lindsey under the bus because that would be easier to justify. Given their history, it's an easy out. Although, reading what I just wrote...I don't even feel confident she took the time to review the Music Cares footage before making any kind of decision.

So no, I do't think she had a long term plan. She's way too lazy to do that. All she needed was a few people to whisper what she wanted to hear/believe to make one of the biggest fumbles of the last half of her career.

On MusiCares, Lindsey didn't want there to be any walk out music, he wanted The Chain to be their entrance. If you watch the video on Youtube, there was a curtain that opened with FM behind it. They played Rhiannon right before Harry Styles introduced them.

It's weird that she had Lindsey at her AHI Benefits in 2000 and 2001, called him her partner in crime, held hands with him on stage for 15 years, said his name in most interviews, and one day he became Rosemary's Baby. But when she took a swipe a LBCM in her 2017 RollingStone interview, I should have known that's what was up.

[tothegypsy]

Originally Posted by michelej1

The only power she had over them is ticket sales and, like I said, she wanted that tour money too. So, it's not like she would have held out forever. If she had threatened and they held their ground, she would have come around in about 6 months.

I think the difference in the star power of Fleetwood Mac and Steve Nicks solo has narrowed over time. When she added a well-known opener like The Pretenders, she was playing some of the same venues that Fleetwood Mac played.

[SteveMacD]

There was no wild long-standing conspiracy, quit being ridiculous. Stevie was talking about a Buckingham Nicks reunion tour in 2013. Things began fracturing in January, 2014, with Christine returning and Stevie’s AHS episode and came to a head in late 2017. Stevie and Lindsey suddenly needed each other increasingly less to achieve their professional goals. Given their acrimonious relationship, it was almost inevitable that there would be some parting of ways.

Christine’s return meant Lindsey no longer had to walk on eggshells around Stevie. He had a musical partner enthusiastic about working with him. Christine, the buffer, the Stevie whisperer, was back. Certainly she could get Stevie back in the studio.

However, just as Christine was rejoining Fleetwood Mac, Stevie’s episode of American Horror Story aired in mid-January and her popularity started skyrocketing again. That’s when she recorded the vault songs. She didn’t have new songs ready, so she could revisit songs that were discarded and subsequently leaked. She had something to capitalize on with the newfound audience.

This also gave Stevie zero incentive to make a Fleetwood Mac album, especially with Christine back. Why possibly be seen as the inferior songwriter when she was the superior concert attraction? Why do anything to jeopardize her sudden rise in prominence? She remembered 1986-97. And, why do something you don’t enjoy doing?

I doubt she gave a thought to LBCM. She wasn’t jealous. Maybe slightly annoyed that it came up in interviews, but not jealous. She was raking in a lot of money on her huge tour and her name was carrying significantly more weight than Lindsey and Christine as a duo. Her vision of revisiting older material and dusting off songs that haven’t been played in a long time was providing to be more viable than new music. She was vindicated.

Which brings us to 2017. Mick released an expensive picture book of Fleetwood Mac’s 1967-74 years, Stevie and Mick had their listening party of Fleetwood Mac songs from other eras and decided the band was going to play some of those songs (which was obviously going to go over like a lead balloon with Lindsey, but that was Stevie’s vision for the tour), the band was preparing for a 50th career retrospective, Lindsey had the disastrous interview (which lost him Irving), Lindsey lost his ***** and became moody at Classic East during GYOW, Tom Petty died (Mike Campbell was suddenly available), and tour negotiations were very tense.

Lindsey signed a solo deal with Atlantic, had a solo retrospective coming out, and had a new solo album ready to go, so he wanted to focus on that. Initially, he wanted a slight delay and then a tour within a tour. Irving and the band kept saying no and Lindsey kept refusing to sign off on the tour. Whatever happened at MusiCares seems to have been more of the last straw. All of the various issues suddenly snowballed and Stevie decided she couldn’t work with him anymore.

It was a sad but predictable ending to the most dysfunctional band ever.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

There was no wild long-standing conspiracy, quit being ridiculous. Stevie was talking about a Buckingham Nicks reunion tour in 2013. Things began fracturing in January, 2014, with Christine returning and Stevie’s AHS episode and came to a head in late 2017. Stevie and Lindsey suddenly needed each other increasingly less to achieve their professional goals. Given their acrimonious relationship, it was almost inevitable that there would be some parting of ways.

Christine’s return meant Lindsey no longer had to walk on eggshells around Stevie. He had a musical partner enthusiastic about working with him. Christine, the buffer, the Stevie whisperer, was back. Certainly she could get Stevie back in the studio.

However, just as Christine was rejoining Fleetwood Mac, Stevie’s episode of American Horror Story aired in mid-January and her popularity started skyrocketing again. That’s when she recorded the vault songs. She didn’t have new songs ready, so she could revisit songs that were discarded and subsequently leaked. She had something to capitalize on with the newfound audience.

This also gave Stevie zero incentive to make a Fleetwood Mac album, especially with Christine back. Why possibly be seen as the inferior songwriter when she was the superior concert attraction? Why do anything to jeopardize her sudden rise in prominence? She remembered 1986-97. And, why do something you don’t enjoy doing?

I doubt she gave a thought to LBCM. She wasn’t jealous. Maybe slightly annoyed that it came up in interviews, but not jealous. She was raking in a lot of money on her huge tour and her name was carrying significantly more weight than Lindsey and Christine as a duo. Her vision of revisiting older material and dusting off songs that haven’t been played in a long time was providing to be more viable than new music. She was vindicated.

Which brings us to 2017. Mick released an expensive picture book of Fleetwood Mac’s 1967-74 years, Stevie and Mick had their listening party of Fleetwood Mac songs from other eras and decided the band was going to play some of those songs (which was obviously going to go over like a lead balloon with Lindsey, but that was Stevie’s vision for the tour), the band was preparing for a 50th career retrospective, Lindsey had the disastrous interview (which lost him Irving), Lindsey lost his ***** and became moody at Classic East during GYOW, Tom Petty died (Mike Campbell was suddenly available), and tour negotiations were very tense.

Lindsey signed a solo deal with Atlantic, had a solo retrospective coming out, and had a new solo album ready to go, so he wanted to focus on that. Initially, he wanted a slight delay and then a tour within a tour. Irving and the band kept saying no and Lindsey kept refusing to sign off on the tour. Whatever happened at MusiCares seems to have been more of the last straw. All of the various issues suddenly snowballed and Stevie decided she couldn’t work with him anymore.

It was a sad but predictable ending to the most dysfunctional band ever.

Well you've won me over. The above is very compelling.

It amazes me Lindsey ever thought the band would approve the "tour within a tour" idea. Say your favorite member of FM is Lindsey and you have the chance to see him without his having to share the spotlight, all for much less money than FM. Are you going to see FM, Lindsey, or both? Some people would choose just to see Lindsey, and in so doing depress the market for FM tickets. The only way it might have worked is if the band conditioned its approval on Lindsey publicizing in advance that he would be doing no FM songs at these shows (and perhaps even on his calling it the "Songs From My Solo Career Only" tour).

[BigAl84]

Don’t forget all the complaining Stevie did about somehow being forced to record the vault album in two weeks in Nashville. She made comments that made it sound like she was under some sort of contractual obligation that would come due in the middle of the Fleetwood Mac tour. Of course Stevie went into her fall on the sword for Fleetwood Mac mode and implied she had to sacrifice her album for Fleetwood Mac. Blah blah blah Fleetwood Mac is like the army blah blah blah I’m the victim blah blah blah we just toured in 2013 blah blah.

She put such a damper on any Fleetwood Mac momentum that came with Christine’s return. Good on Christine and Lindsey for getting BuckVie over the finish line without her. For somebody who was allegedly happy about Christine’s return, she had middle child syndrome the entire time. I still laugh about the interview where Christine mentions that Stevie gave her an iPod with 24K Gold on it. Classic Stevie - I don’t want to record with you, but let me shove my new album in your face because I’m the greatest.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Don’t forget all the complaining Stevie did about somehow being forced to record the vault album in two weeks in Nashville. She made comments that made it sound like she was under some sort of contractual obligation that would come due in the middle of the Fleetwood Mac tour. Of course Stevie went into her fall on the sword for Fleetwood Mac mode and implied she had to sacrifice her album for Fleetwood Mac. Blah blah blah Fleetwood Mac is like the army blah blah blah I’m the victim blah blah blah we just toured in 2013 blah blah.

She put such a damper on any Fleetwood Mac momentum that came with Christine’s return. Good on Christine and Lindsey for getting BuckVie over the finish line without her. For somebody who was allegedly happy about Christine’s return, she had middle child syndrome the entire time. I still laugh about the interview where Christine mentions that Stevie gave her an iPod with 24K Gold on it. Classic Stevie - I don’t want to record with you, but let me shove my new album in your face because I’m the greatest.

BEST. POST. EVER.

Absolutely a complete egomaniac. I loathe her now.

[BigAl84]

Stevie 2018:
"This team wanted to get out on the road and one of the members didn't want to go out on the road for a whole year"

Let's hop in the hot tub time machine to March of 2012

Mick Fleetwood:
"We were supposed to tour in 2011, but we delayed it for a year to allow Stevie Nicks to support her solo record and for Lindsey Buckingham to do the same with his. I’ve always been supportive of my bandmates doing solo albums, so long as we kept our band together. If you look at the credits as far back as you like, I’ve always played extensively on many of them, and this time was no different. I played drums on most of Stevie’s latest album, the one she is still out there supporting and the one that is the reason that for now she refuses to do a Fleetwood Mac tour. It comes down to her, and for the first time, I think, even Lindsey has lost his patience. All of this uncertainty is a tremendous change for me.”

“Stevie is really proud of her new album, and I get that, but she will not let it go. Honestly, it’s not easy out there, and it’s done well, but she’s insistent upon working it until it is incapable of growing further. I understand what she likes about her situation: Touring in support of her album, she is able to be her, without any degree of compromise. She doesn’t have to worry about the other three of us asking her to do anything—which is basically the contract that comes with being in a band. She has become enthralled and obsessed with her album in a very nice but very inconvenient way. She’s working 20 times harder than she would ever have to with Fleetwood Mac and not making anything close to as much money as she would with us. But that is what she wants to do, and I respect that. In the past I’d not have taken no for an answer. I’d have persuaded Stevie or whoever needed persuading at the time to do the tour. But I’m not doing that this time or ever again, and there is nothing else to say about it. Stevie changed her program and changed her mind, and however willful anyone may be, this is what’s happening. Or not happening, rather. It’s quite simple: Stevie changed her mind. And you know what? That is our innate privilege as humans: Each of us has the right to change our mind.”

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Stevie 2018:
"This team wanted to get out on the road and one of the members didn't want to go out on the road for a whole year"

Let's hop in the hot tub time machine to March of 2012

Mick Fleetwood:
"We were supposed to tour in 2011, but we delayed it for a year to allow Stevie Nicks to support her solo record and for Lindsey Buckingham to do the same with his. I’ve always been supportive of my bandmates doing solo albums, so long as we kept our band together. If you look at the credits as far back as you like, I’ve always played extensively on many of them, and this time was no different. I played drums on most of Stevie’s latest album, the one she is still out there supporting and the one that is the reason that for now she refuses to do a Fleetwood Mac tour. It comes down to her, and for the first time, I think, even Lindsey has lost his patience. All of this uncertainty is a tremendous change for me.”

“Stevie is really proud of her new album, and I get that, but she will not let it go. Honestly, it’s not easy out there, and it’s done well, but she’s insistent upon working it until it is incapable of growing further. I understand what she likes about her situation: Touring in support of her album, she is able to be her, without any degree of compromise. She doesn’t have to worry about the other three of us asking her to do anything—which is basically the contract that comes with being in a band. She has become enthralled and obsessed with her album in a very nice but very inconvenient way. She’s working 20 times harder than she would ever have to with Fleetwood Mac and not making anything close to as much money as she would with us. But that is what she wants to do, and I respect that. In the past I’d not have taken no for an answer. I’d have persuaded Stevie or whoever needed persuading at the time to do the tour. But I’m not doing that this time or ever again, and there is nothing else to say about it. Stevie changed her program and changed her mind, and however willful anyone may be, this is what’s happening. Or not happening, rather. It’s quite simple: Stevie changed her mind. And you know what? That is our innate privilege as humans: Each of us has the right to change our mind.”

Stevie Nicks 2012:
"Fleetwood Mac [had planned to go out this year but now] is going out next year.... I kind of put them on hold. I mean, I made this record. That was a year. Then I toured last year–off and on all last year–and did lots and lots of press. And then I decided to take this year also to tour all summer, because I did not feel that this record was finished. And so it did not make Fleetwood Mac happy but I said to them, ‘I’m taking 2012 for In Your Dreams. I’m sorry. And if you can’t understand that in your heart–how important this is to me–then I’m sorry, but I’m doing it, and I will see you in 2013.'"

2:22-3:08 here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEXglFYtGCk):

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Stevie Nicks 2012:
"Fleetwood Mac [had planned to go out this year but now] is going out next year.... I kind of put them on hold. I mean, I made this record. That was a year. Then I toured last year–off and on all last year–and did lots and lots of press. And then I decided to take this year also to tour all summer, because I did not feel that this record was finished. And so it did not make Fleetwood Mac happy but I said to them, ‘I’m taking 2012 for In Your Dreams. I’m sorry. And if you can’t understand that in your heart–how important this is to me–then I’m sorry, but I’m doing it, and I will see you in 2013.'"

2:22-3:08 here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEXglFYtGCk):

And that is why Stevie Nicks was Fleetwood Mac from 03-13. Chris brought people back in 2014 and Stevie too from AHS and all her tv. After OWTS, it was back to Stevie. However, not in the UK. Lindsey and Christine's album scored higher than Stevie's last 2 albums there.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

And that is why Stevie Nicks was Fleetwood Mac from 03-13. Chris brought people back in 2014 and Stevie too from AHS and all her tv. After OWTS, it was back to Stevie. However, not in the UK. Lindsey and Christine's album scored higher than Stevie's last 2 albums there.

Actually, if you read reviews from '03-'04 Lindsey most often than not was mentioned for his energy on stage.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Actually, if you read reviews from '03-'04 Lindsey most often than not was mentioned for his energy on stage.

Be that as it may (and it was), Stevie was the one selling tickets.