Buckingham blames “disoriented” Stevie Nicks for the lack of new Fleetwood Mac music

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

same as SN. so if SN can be inducted twice so can Belinda. Heaven is a Place on Earth was way more huge around the world than any SN solo song.

more than people who cried foul for SN??

Alright, that’s two votes for Belinda!

Also, I think it’s possible the fact that Stevie can apparently be polarizing may have played in her favor as to being inducted twice. That is, if people can love her in FM but hate her solo work, and vice versa if people love her solo work but dislike FM, then that might make for a compelling argument that her solo work is truly distinct from her work with FM, and therefore she deserved to be inducted twice.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Stevie got the honor of being the first woman inducted twice.
I believe women who had great impact on popular and rock music and culture should be first to be inducted (Aretha. Big Mama Thornton, Patti Smith, Donna Summer)

I believe Stevie should be in. But Tina really had to fight to become who she is, such as getting to own her name! And as a woman of color who revolutionized performance and arguably gave pop music a rock edge, I think Tina should've been the first woman inducted twice.

If you watch the induction video package for Stevie, Rhiannin is played multiple times so I'm not sure Stevie was inducted for her solo music but maybe it was for being Stevie Nicks who is a solo singer and a member of Fleetwood Mac. But I believe it's her privilege which got her in before Tina.

Btw, Diana actually wasn't inducted as a solo artist which is a crime. And I don't think Belinda should be in. I think Gloria Estefan, Chaka Khan, and Mary J Blige should be in though!

Wow, you raise excellent points! I did kind of wonder if Stevie’s induction could have been related to white privlige, but I hope not. I’ve always thought/hoped music was one area where white privlige wasn’t as predominant as it in so many places, but who knows. Definitely a male dominated industry. Diana Ross will surely be inducted as a solo artist at some point.

Thanks for your response! I’d love to hear what blinker thinks, as well as other folks here, but I wonder if it should be a new thread?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

same as SN.

Stevie had four platinum albums and ten top 40 singles, as well as having a few top 10 duets on other artists albums and having other artists have top ten hits with her songs.

Belinda had one platinum album and six top 40 singles.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I'm not sure Stevie was inducted for her solo music but maybe it was for being Stevie Nicks who is a solo singer and a member of Fleetwood Mac. But I believe it's her privilege which got her in before Tina.

Btw, Diana actually wasn't inducted as a solo artist which is a crime. And I don't think Belinda should be in. I think Gloria Estefan, Chaka Khan, and Mary J Blige should be in though!

you nailed it - that's a very good way to describe it.

she and her team including Liz R and IA have been great in marketing her persona [to the right people and places] and making it look like her music contributions are way beyond their real scope.


though she is by far the most successful in self-marketing from all FM members, i do have to laugh at some SN fans on social media and particularly in FM groups who think her popularity is way beyond what it really is. like when you see multiple posts saying how Harry Styles or Dave Stewart or Taylor Swift are using her name to get into the news. uhm, yeah. do you see Elton John talking much about SN collab when he talks about his new album? barely a mention. he's talking about Dua Lipa and Lil Nas X, among others. her name doesn't attract nearly as much attention.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie had four platinum albums and ten top 40 singles, as well as having a few top 10 duets on other artists albums and having other artists have top ten hits with her songs.

Belinda had one platinum album and six top 40 singles.

SN had ten top 40 solo singles? i didn't know she even had that many FM top 40 singles.

Belinda Carlisle matters. She's got the beat.

then again Stevie has some gold dust and a silver spoon.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

you nailed it - that's a very good way to describe it.

she and her team including Liz R and IA have been great in marketing her persona [to the right people and places] and making it look like her music contributions are way beyond their real scope.


though she is by far the most successful in self-marketing from all FM members, i do have to laugh at some SN fans on social media and particularly in FM groups who think her popularity is way beyond what it really is. like when you see multiple posts saying how Harry Styles or Dave Stewart or Taylor Swift are using her name to get into the news. uhm, yeah. do you see Elton John talking much about SN collab when he talks about his new album? barely a mention. he's talking about Dua Lipa and Lil Nas X, among others. her name doesn't attract nearly as much attention.

Rosanne of Rock and Roll. She's popular because of her persona. Always has been. And I agree her worshippers on social media are like watching a political show. I've had to quit so many twitter and fb/ig groups because of how seriously "loon" they turn out. To Liz and IA!! here here

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Rosanne of Rock and Roll. She's popular because of her persona. Always has been. And I agree her worshippers on social media are like watching a political show. I've had to quit so many twitter and fb/ig groups because of how seriously "loon" they turn out. To Liz and IA!! here here

i clicked on the video of Darling from SNL. nothing to do with SN at all. yet bunch of her worshippers show up in comments bashing and hating on LB.

why are they looking at the media of the person they hate, which has nothing to do with their favorite? bizarre. doesn't mean that SN currency will go down if his goes up. yet there they are.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

i clicked on the video of Darling from SNL. nothing to do with SN at all. yet bunch of her worshippers show up in comments bashing and hating on LB.

Like every thread on this forum doesn’t devolve into Stevie bashing?

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I see Stevie having more influence on a lot of today’s young recording and performing artists and being more culturally relevant in the modern era than Tina, Diana, or Cher.

Hit documentary out about Tina. Hugely successful musicals appearing nightly in the West End and on Broadway on Tina's career.

Did you watch the induction video package for Tina and even Carole King? Look at the range of artists who provide testimonials.

What is Stevie's influence on today's young recording artists? Is it a fashion influence? Because I can't find a musical influence.

What is Stevie's cultural relevance right now? Playing a witch in AHS or cranberry/skateboarding?

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Hit documentary out about Tina. Hugely successful musicals appearing nightly in the West End and on Broadway on Tina's career.

Did you watch the induction video package for Tina and even Carole King? Look at the range of artists who provide testimonials.

What is Stevie's influence on today's young recording artists? Is it a fashion influence? Because I can't find a musical influence.

What is Stevie's cultural relevance right now? Playing a witch in AHS or cranberry/skateboarding?

So true. But the millennials are bewitched by Stevie because she, like so many of them, is wholly absorbed in the self. She, like them, possesses a point of view that does not allow space for dialogue or compromise. In the current world of hyperbole and super-emoting, Stevie is the ideal role model. Her pursuits of self-interest, attention, and viral fame match the ambitions of countless youths. She is their mirror. That she doesn’t accept criticism, that she projects onto past lovers either all of her anger or adoration, that she seems incapable of humility—all of this rings true with a social media-saturated generation.

Cher and Tina are icons of a previous era. We still celebrate them, but Stevie’s sense of herself as a “brand” is very now.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Hit documentary out about Tina. Hugely successful musicals appearing nightly in the West End and on Broadway on Tina's career.

Did you watch the induction video package for Tina and even Carole King? Look at the range of artists who provide testimonials.

What is Stevie's influence on today's young recording artists? Is it a fashion influence? Because I can't find a musical influence.

What is Stevie's cultural relevance right now? Playing a witch in AHS or cranberry/skateboarding?

Haim, CHVCHES, Jenny Lewis, and Florence Welch come to mind off top my head. Miley Cyrus, too, although she had a lot of different influences (including Dolly).

Tina Turner? She was a very high energy performer who was less interested in R&B than being a contemporary of the Stones, Bowie, and The Who (“Better Be Good To Me” almost sounds like an outtake from Some Girls). I’m sorry, but I don’t see anyone modern era doing anything remotely similar to Tina. There’s no “oh, she’s trying to be Tina” like there is with Stevie.

My fiancée won tickets to CHVCHES a couple of weeks ago and we caught a few songs. Totally not our jam, but even my fiancée, who isn’t remotely a Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks fan, said that their singer was totally giving off a Stevie Nicks vibe.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Haim, CHVCHES, Jenny Lewis, and Florence Welch come to mind off top my head. Miley Cyrus, too, although she had a lot of different influences (including Dolly).

Tina Turner? She was a very high energy performer who was less interested in R&B than being a contemporary of the Stones, Bowie, and The Who (“Better Be Good To Me” almost sounds like an outtake from Some Girls). I’m sorry, but I don’t see anyone modern era doing anything remotely similar to Tina. There’s no “oh, she’s trying to be Tina” like there is with Stevie.

My fiancée won tickets to CHVCHES a couple of weeks ago and we caught a few songs. Totally not our jam, but even my fiancée, who isn’t remotely a Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks fan, said that their singer was totally giving off a Stevie Nicks vibe.

I've only heard of Haim and Florence Welch. I guess you can add Harry Styles and Vanessa Carlton to the list you detailed. So these artists are trying to dress and entertain like Stevie i.e. twirling, dancing in a trance, flowing clothes? Is that what the influence is?
I think Miley was heavily influenced by Madonna, more than Stevie influenced her.

Why you're not seeing Tina's influence in today's artists is that you may not be exposing yourself to artists of color.

If you follow artists of color such as Lizzo, Janelle Monáe, HER, Christina Aguilera, Beyoncé, you'll see they're trying to be Tina.

Where do you hear Some Girls sound in Better Be Good to Me? I don't hear it.
Maybe something from Undercover but I don't think Better Be Good to Me sounds liek the Stones at all.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I've only heard of Haim and Florence Welch. I guess you can add Harry Styles and Vanessa Carlton to the list you detailed. So these artists are trying to dress and entertain like Stevie i.e. twirling, dancing in a trance, flowing clothes? Is that what the influence is?
I think Miley was heavily influenced by Madonna, more than Stevie influenced her.

Why you're not seeing Tina's influence in today's artists is that you may not be exposing yourself to artists of color.

If you follow artists of color such as Lizzo, Janelle Monáe, HER, Christina Aguilera, Beyoncé, you'll see they're trying to be Tina.

Where do you hear Some Girls sound in Better Be Good to Me? I don't hear it.
Maybe something from Undercover but I don't think Better Be Good to Me sounds liek the Stones at all.

yeah, argument that SN influence in music and culture all together is larger than Tina Turner's or Cher's or Diana Ross' does not even deserve any air, the people arguing that must be doing it just for the sake of arguing tbh.

you can also add Mick Jagger to all those performers influenced by Tina, as he's often said himself. Michael Jackson tried to be Diana Ross. BTS seeing Diana and going "she queen!"

HER is amazing! she was also a part of the Tina tribute at her induction (duet with Keith Urban standing in for Bryan Adams who tested COVID+ at the time of induction). as was Christina.

yes, many younger generation musicians cite Fleetwood Mac's influence and SN usually jumps on co-opting them. many of these bands seem to be influenced by e.g., Tango era Fleetwood Mac, and maybe Christine's music especially, or Lindsey's sound. many have for example said that Haim's sound especially is influenced by Christine's music. but as we've been discussing ad nauseum, Stevie Nicks is the figure personifying Fleetwood Mac, so the influence of Christine or Lindsey is ascribed to her instead.

plus Stevie is great on jumping and co-opting any new artist who cites Fleetwood Mac as huge influence. after Harry Styles has been seen at FM concerts all over the world one year, next thing you saw Stevie (and Mick at first) jumped on that and became his best friend. i had to laugh when she begged Lorde to come see her solo show in Australia / NZ (she did not show up), because Lorde is such huge FM fan and never misses their show there.

what i did see however is a number of younger still struggling artists co-opting witchy chiffony clothing look. and number of girls and women all over the internet buying into her portraying herself as this huge feminist and trailblazer for women.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Why you're not seeing Tina's influence in today's artists is that you may not be exposing yourself to artists of color.

If you follow artists of color such as Lizzo, Janelle Monáe, HER, Christina Aguilera, Beyoncé, you'll see they're trying to be Tina.

Well, you just explained why those artists aren’t even close to being Tina Turner. I saw Tina Turner twice. The crowds were mostly middle aged white folks as well as black folks. Tina played rock to rock crowds.

Those artists have voices and choreography, but that’s where any remote similarity ends. They don’t have the soul or the rock that Tina had (I’m only using past tense since Tina no longer performs).

Where do you hear Some Girls sound in Better Be Good to Me? I don't hear it.
Maybe something from Undercover but I don't think Better Be Good to Me sounds liek the Stones at all.

It reminds me a lot of their cover of Imagination.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Haim, CHVCHES, Jenny Lewis

i'm guessing you meant CHVRCHES.

i hear chvrches music a lot on the radio stations i listen to, and it never occurred to me that their music would be influenced by SN.

this is what wikipedia says of their music style and influence:

Musical style
Known for their clean sound, Chvrches' music style is usually tagged as electronic or synthpop.[34] Neon Gold described their sound as "a godless hurricane of kinetic pop energy". Kitty Empire of The Observer wrote they "make accessible electro-pop that's only just short of truly brilliant".[65] Wired noted following Every Open Eye's release that the album "cements the group as today's heir apparent to Depeche Mode, New Order, and other titans of British electronic music."[34]

The band stated that their heroes were David Bowie, Depeche Mode, Iggy Pop, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Tangerine Dream and Nick Cave.[66] They have also been influenced by acts such as Madonna, Eurythmics, Throbbing Gristle, Prince,[7] Tubeway Army, Robyn, Laurie Anderson, Kate Bush, Cocteau Twins, Death Cab for Cutie, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Deftones, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney Houston, Elliott Smith and the Prodigy.[67][68][69][70][71] The band writes, records, mixes, and masters its songs in a basement studio in Glasgow.