What.....is going on with Fleetwood mac?

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by justdreamin

The Dance and SYW tours used a lot of smaller venues where getting the sound right is easier and almost every seat is a good seat as far as sound goes. They are starting off at some large venues and I don't know who's doing their sound, but even with sound checks, the EQ changes when the venue fills up. It takes a few dates to really get the kinks worked of not only vocal monitoring but also being able to hear yourself play. It's one thing to "play deaf" but it's much more difficult to play when there's a lot of echo, in the bigger venues, coming back at you. A player gets used to it with time. Also, depending on where you sat, you may not have had the ultimate experience!
You should go out to a date mid tour, see if there's any difference and report back.

The Dance was 50/50 sheds/arenas and SYW was 85/15 arenas/sheds. They're playing the same venues (arenas) they did on the SYW tour, so I'm not sure what you're talking with the "smaller venues".

Looking at the venue they have played thus far on this tour... Mellon Arena (Pittsburgh) is a notoriously hard venue for the guys working the soundboard at the back of the house. Cavernous, oddly shaped, lots of echoing, etc. The U2 show I saw there a few years back was, by far, the loudest concert I've ever been to in any size venue.

Some artists like to mix their songs unnecessarily loud, almost as if for effect. Prime example- this past fall with Lindsey's tour, and cranking the sound/bass up to "11" on "Love Runs Deeper" and ONLY "Love Runs Deeper". I guess he was trying to make a statement or something.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by LukeA

They're playing the same venues (arenas) they did on the SYW tour, so I'm not sure what you're talking with the "smaller venues"

This statement is not entirely true. FM's only stop in Charlotte on the SYW tour was on the third leg of the tour, in a shed venue. This time around they upgraded to the downtown arena, which holds at least 2,000 more seats.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by DigYourGrave

And as for Lindsey, I still think he's ripping up that stage like he hasn't done for ages! Just look at his reviews! All those journalists can't be wrong.. can they? His playing is epic!!

I think he'd say "he's painting his masterpiece".

[Lindsey Jr.]

Another complaining thread, this time started by a not so good Rush-album

[StreetAngel86]

Originally Posted by kennation

With that negative outlook you will fit right in here on The Ledge...

this is where the real fans live

if you can't criticize and be negative 98.4% of the time
you're ill equipped to be here

Originally Posted by SandyMac

Test,

You are an audiophille right? I might be coming at this from a different angle than you are, but if you judge solely if a concert is musical perfection in hitting every note, cue, you will be disappointed. Live music lends itself to mistakes just like live theater. Blunders do happen from time to time and will be the first to admit that in some earlier songs this tour, Stevie was off key, or sounded a bit weak vocally, but don't dwell on that. I am looking at the big picture of Fleetwood Mac rocking out on stage and just having fun. We are all getting older and am sure it is hard for them to keep up this grueling schedule and be musically perfect each and every night.

SPOT ON!!!!!
i listen to a lot of music
go to concerts every now and then
but one reason i love going to Mac concerts and listening to the boots is coz sometimes i just hate hearing the album versions
they are SO good live
and i prefer pretty much all of their songs with a live-edge
what Sandy said is true, a concert is not supposed to be perfect.
it's supposed to sound different, and of course they are going to have mistakes, they're human.

SYW was not The Dance and Unleashed is not SYW
completely diff set up
they're older
why would they want to mirror something from 12 years ago
it would be boring as hell

[belladonnadream]

I saw the Dance and missed Say you will.. but I think they're doing very well!!!.. I do think Stevie doesn't seem as into everything as usual like when solo....but none the less she still sounded great to me at the Rochester show.. and Lindsey was awesome and his performance was genuine! He never seems to be putting on a act....

[kennation]

Originally Posted by StreetAngel86

this is where the real fans live

if you can't criticize and be negative 98.4% of the time
you're ill equipped to be here

Street, I am soooo glad that you wrote this. This illustrates something that I have been saying for a while (NOT THAT IT WAS YOUR INTENTION,) people can be so sharp and vicious, but becuase they add these ridiculous little smilie-kisses and bouncing dots that makes it ok. It is sooo passive agressive. I mean, that is why some of my posts are so provoking because people respond in such a nasty way, but they use these icons to the right and that makes it ok... I just find it so amusing. Thank you, Street. That has been my point for a long time. However, I love your usage of that EXACT percentage, lol. 98.4% that is hilarious.

[Test4echo]

Originally Posted by Lindsey Jr.

Another complaining thread, this time started by a not so good Rush-album

We are talking live performances here, not an album. Did i criticize "Rumors or Tango in the night?" No.
Rush live, is amazing. Yet I would and have criticized geds vocals many times during many tours.

Back on topic,

This is not about large venues or the mix stage left/right or downtown.
This is about the tightness of the band and the lacking vocals.
They were not in sync, their harmonies were off and they were singing flat alot and just seemed to be struggling.
I don't care that Stevie didn't float around like a butterfly all night like some have mentioned.
I am only being critical of the musicianship between Stevie and Lindsy.
John and Mick were really good for the most part.

I'm not the only one folks. Many of the reviews while rating over all a good show, a few reviews did pick out and mention the same things i am saying.

You can't really discern AT the show or after the show based on memories how good or bad it actually was.

I'll be honest and say after we left the detroit show, I was thinking it was pretty good. At the time I didn't notice or recollect anything negative going on.

It wasn't until I listened to the show that I noticed the things i'm talking about.

I would pick on the Pittsburgh show (because the awesome pro sounding audio we have of it) to really make my point. But, many would say thats the first show it doesn't count!...lol
However, i don't know how anyone could deny after listening to that show that it was not very tight.
And those same issues continue....at least they did in Detroit and even worse in To.

By the way, for us canucks it wasn't $150 a ticket. Thats American pricing. It was actually $234 per ticket after exchange.

I hope they get better as they go. I really do.

test,

[kennation]

Originally Posted by Test4echo

We are talking live performances here, not an album. Did i criticize "Rumors or Tango in the night?" No.
Rush live, is amazing. Yet I would and have criticized geds vocals many times during many tours.

Back on topic,

This is not about large venues or the mix stage left/right or downtown.
This is about the tightness of the band and the lacking vocals.
They were not in sync, their harmonies were off and they were singing flat alot and just seemed to be struggling.
I don't care that Stevie didn't float around like a butterfly all night like some have mentioned.
I am only being critical of the musicianship between Stevie and Lindsy.
John and Mick were really good for the most part.

I'm not the only one folks. Many of the reviews while rating over all a good show, a few reviews did pick out and mention the same things i am saying.

You can't really discern AT the show or after the show based on memories how good or bad it actually was.

I'll be honest and say after we left the detroit show, I was thinking it was pretty good. At the time I didn't notice or recollect anything negative going on.

It wasn't until I listened to the show that I noticed the things i'm talking about.

I would pick on the Pittsburgh show (because the awesome pro sounding audio we have of it) to really make my point. But, many would say thats the first show it doesn't count!...lol
However, i don't know how anyone could deny after listening to that show that it was not very tight.
And those same issues continue....at least they did in Detroit and even worse in To.

By the way, for us canucks it wasn't $150 a ticket. Thats American pricing. It was actually $234 per ticket after exchange.

I hope they get better as they go. I really do.

test,

I appreciate that you have a difference of opinion. I appreciate that you stick with your opinion. Again, I think without a good recording of that Detroit show, you cannot judge it.

My point: Did you, at the time you left The Palace, feel as though you got your money's worth? My guess? I am sure you did. That is what it was about. You were entertained. You may have even smiled, danced, or were singing along?!?! So from that- the band did it's job. The band is playing really really well. There will always be a little something to judge. These are humans... Look at Janis... how frequently was she in tune? But she made us feel, think, and moved us. That is what it is all about. They did their job, they did it well.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Test4echo

You can't really discern AT the show or after the show based on memories how good or bad it actually was.

I'll be honest and say after we left the detroit show, I was thinking it was pretty good. At the time I didn't notice or recollect anything negative going on.

It wasn't until I listened to the show that I noticed the things i'm talking about.

Well, you know, when you say that, I'm not sure that it's your perception AT the show that was clouded.

I mean isn't what you feel and experience at the show the real test of how good a concert was? It's not what you feel AFTERWARDS when you hear a boot of the show you were at. I understand what you're saying and respect your present recollections, but if I was going to use your opinion as a guide to my own approach to the concert . . . If I was going to use it to decide whether or not I should attend myself, when you tell us you liked the show when you were THERE and then changed your mind afterwards when it was over and you heard a recording of it, I think I'd just go with your in-concert perception as the most reliable one.

Michele

[Test4echo]

Originally Posted by kennation

I appreciate that you have a difference of opinion. I appreciate that you stick with your opinion. Again, I think without a good recording of that Detroit show, you cannot judge it.

My point: Did you, at the time you left The Palace, feel as though you got your money's worth? My guess? I am sure you did. That is what it was about. You were entertained. You may have even smiled, danced, or were singing along?!?! So from that- the band did it's job. The band is playing really really well. There will always be a little something to judge. These are humans... Look at Janis... how frequently was she in tune? But she made us feel, think, and moved us. That is what it is all about. They did their job, they did it well.

Of course I felt I got my monies worth!
It WAS a good show. Yes I did hoot and hollar and dance a bit...lol

I think we are getting our lines crossed. I am NOT bashing Fleetwood Mac as horrible or saying it was a "BAD" show. Was it worth $234? umm....i guess it was since i paid for 2 shows...lol

Maybe i should have started out this thread by saying "musicians only" or something.
I realize that from a non musicians perspective (a critical one at that), what i'm saying makes no sense or seems a bit unfair, or maybe you really just don't hear what I hear.
I also understand that most of you are judging the show by how much fun you had while there. Thats ok, thats all that really matters I guess.

My criticisms have nothing to do with how much fun it was or how awe inspiring it was to be in the same building with Fleetwood Mac. Which are both true statements.
Nor is it about the "quality" of the recordings or the main mix at the show.
I thought the mix was quite good at the show.

Its just that I expected "The Dance" and it was more like a really good tribute band. RFM comes to mind.

PS, I'm not using any emoticons for fear of being passive aggressive....lol

test,

[shackin'up]

Expecting "the dance" is, especially for a musician, very naieve. The dance dvd is one of the most afterproduced and slick pieces of "livework" ever released.

What I like about what I've heard on the boots is that-like in the seventies- they don't stretch too much anymore to make it a slick liveperformance. They sound more "live, vulnerable and raw" this tour. Listen with that in mind and you'll say: they haven't played better live since 1983.

i say they can even do better by ditching one or two back-upsingers and Steve Rinkov(not as a drumtech, but as an additional player). Mick can do it alone.

I saw Rush live, by the way. Technically perfect, very slick produced, close to the originals, almost like on record.



BOOOOORING!!!!!!!

Except for Geddy Lee's vocals: They are ALIVE!. He can make mistakes and change melodylines in an instant.

[Test4echo]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Expecting "the dance" is, especially for a musician, very naieve. The dance dvd is one of the most afterproduced and slick pieces of "livework" ever released.

What I like about what I've heard on the boots is that-like in the seventies- they don't stretch too much anymore to make it a slick liveperformance. They sound more "live, vulnerable and raw" this tour. Listen with that in mind and you'll say: they haven't played better live since 1983.

i say they can even do better by ditching one or two back-upsingers and Steve Rinkov(not as a drumtech, but as an additional player). Mick can do it alone.

Yes, but doesn't it sound great?

No really, I know what your saying and your right. It IS produced to sound spectacular.
However, if you notice, during those shows, they all hit the mark. meaning, they sing when there supposed to. They play the right notes, and together they are really tight. Of course the "sound quality" itself is somewhat of an illusion due to as you mentioned, post-production slickery. (Is that a word?...lol)
Once again, this has nothing to do with "sound quality". It has to do with WHAT, HOW and WHEN each member is playing (interacting) with the others. Tightness.
I just found it lacking a bit. My worthless opinion, that all.

I admit very honestly that I'm a stickler for accuracy. When I hear a band play live it had better sound like the best performance they ever gave.
For me, The Dance was and IS the pinnacle of Fleetwood Mac. I've never seen them PLAY better. Fluid, spot on, tight, perfection.
Notice I didn't mention "Sound" better.
As you mentioned, post-production can make anyone "sound" better. Its the playing better i'm talking about.

Listen, I love FM and always will. This experience has not changed that.
I don't want to make enemies or be a troll here.
I really want to continue posting and contributing to the ledge in good faith.

I'll drop the critisizm and move on to another topic:

Toronto the 26th.....should i go again?.....hummmm

test,

[Test4echo]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

I saw Rush live, by the way. Technically perfect, very slick produced, close to the originals, almost like on record.
BOOOOORING!!!!!!!

Except for Geddy Lee's vocals: They are ALIVE!. He can make mistakes and change melodylines in an instant.

Rush boring? Your not serious. You can't be.
Don't make me fight you......lmao.

yea, Rush is a VERY acquired taste. They just appeal to me and unlike you I LOVE how they can play the way they do. I appreciate how well they can translate a "What you hear on the record" is pretty much what they do Live."

But honestly I wouldn't want to hear Fleetwood Mac like that.
I appreciate how Fleetwood Mac changes up the arraignments for their live performances.

The Dance arraignment wise is much better than the recorded versions to me.

test,

[kennation]

Originally Posted by Test4echo

Of course I felt I got my monies worth!
It WAS a good show. Yes I did hoot and hollar and dance a bit...lol

I think we are getting our lines crossed. I am NOT bashing Fleetwood Mac as horrible or saying it was a "BAD" show. Was it worth $234? umm....i guess it was since i paid for 2 shows...lol

Maybe i should have started out this thread by saying "musicians only" or something.
I realize that from a non musicians perspective (a critical one at that), what i'm saying makes no sense or seems a bit unfair, or maybe you really just don't hear what I hear.
I also understand that most of you are judging the show by how much fun you had while there. Thats ok, thats all that really matters I guess.

My criticisms have nothing to do with how much fun it was or how awe inspiring it was to be in the same building with Fleetwood Mac. Which are both true statements.
Nor is it about the "quality" of the recordings or the main mix at the show.
I thought the mix was quite good at the show.

Its just that I expected "The Dance" and it was more like a really good tribute band. RFM comes to mind.

PS, I'm not using any emoticons for fear of being passive aggressive....lol

test,

Well, as a musician, I can understand. Lindsey noticed it, as well. There were several times when he looked down at his guitar like, "Really? Did I just do that?"

I understand. It was the difference between The Dance, and what we got in Detroit. I understand where you are coming from. Right on.

Will you go so far as to admit that they were A LOT better than they were night 1 of Pittsburgh? I think that I notice it more in the harmonies... Stevie sounded a little pitchy, in areas. They did do a false start on one song. But will you come with me on my point that they seem to be improving over the course of the tour? Still kicked my ass, though~