A post from "Jesusland"

JamieSPC · #1 11-08-2004, 02:35 PM

Hey Blue Staters!

Here's a Fleetwood Mac fan, Alabamian, Christian, Republican and overall basic lover of humanity who dropped in on Chit Chat, knowing what he would find, but dismayed by it all the same.

Dismayed because:
--vitriol is vitriol no matter what side it comes from
--in the process of accusing others of intolerance, many resort to intolerance themselves
--the same outpouring of hatred many of you accuse "Red Staters" of seems to go unchecked and practically unnoticed in your own ranks
--the same type of lashing out against homosexuals, African-Americans or other minority group would likely result in the offending parties being banned from this board (i.e., some brash, misguided individual posting a map branding New York state "Gayville")

It hurts when someone disagrees with you, and it hurts to lose a tough fight. But it also hurts to be openly ridiculed and beat to the dust by people who have absolutely no respect or understanding for what you believe, yet hate you for it without even asking.

None of you here know me, and thereby have no business making assumptions about me personally. But rest easy in the knowledge that you have made me feel most unwelcome at The Ledge.

Thanks, and congratulations for your "tolerance" ... and feel free to flame me into oblivion.

Alison · #2 11-08-2004, 02:42 PM

Yes you will probably be flamed. As I have been in the past.
I do agree with what you have said.
Many may feel the same way, but why would they bother posting just to be torn apart.

JamieSPC · #3 11-08-2004, 02:45 PM

Alison,

Quote:

but why would they bother posting just to be torn apart

Because it's worth saying. 'Nuff said.

amber · #4 11-08-2004, 02:55 PM

i don't like people to feel bad, but some like you DO argue with others on here. Which you're free to do.
And you notice how a lot of the liberal Dems post news articles supporting thier points? You could do that as well.

DeeGeMe · #5 11-08-2004, 02:58 PM

I'm one who does not agree with either of you. And I'm glad the two of you are so happy with the Chimp because I'm not!

For the record, a Southern Baptist and I live in South Carolina. And I'm a Democrat because I'm a Christian. I believe in helping the poor, and the downtrodden, and that all men (and women) are created equal. I own and have read several different translations of the Bible, and you know, in not a single one of those versions, do I recall Jesus hanging out with the rich and the powerful. He chased the moneychangers out of the temple. He fed the poor. He cured the sick. His friends were the poor, the lepers, and the prostitutes. The lowest of the low--no where do I recall Jesus taking trips on the corporate jets with his buddies from Enron (you know what I'm talking about here).

Yet, the warfare, and it is indeed warfare, that Republicans have engaged in against Democrats would have you believe that casting a vote for the Democrats is the same as voting for Satan. This is just beyond ridiculous. Yet, some Christians have been so misled by the Republicans that they have swallowed this malarky hook, line, and sinker. And they will, one day, I predict, choke on it as a result.

It's remarkable to me that George Bush, a man who only goes to Church during election years (and even that's pretty rare) can proclaim himself to be a Christian and everyone believes it. I say that you should be known by your works--not your words. And I see a president who has cut funding for the poor, for the aged, for children, for education, for social programs across the board. This is being a Christian???? Yet, he has no problems further enriching the wealthy and for endorsing programs and erasing laws that protect the environment and individuals from corporations. Doesn't that bother you? Because it should. In fact, it should scare you to death.

Let me ask you this--do you really think that the Anti-Christ would appear and proclaim himself the Anti-Christ? Of course not, he (or she) will put the most attractive, genial face on their evil as they possibly can. The Bible's pretty clear on this--it says that "many shall arise in my name." Just something to think about there for you today.

Does it not bother any of you who voted for this man that the very places that were attacked on 9/11 voted AGAINST this president? Does it bother you that he was warned that we were going to be attacked and did NOTHING about it? That he ignored the warnings?

Does it not bother you that there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein had a direct involvement in 9/11 or with Osama Bin Laden? or that there have been NO Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Iraq? That over 100,000 innocent civilians have been murdered in Iraq by our troops? And for what? Why are we there? This has not kept us safer and has instead, enabled Osama Bin Laden and the other terrorist groups to recruit hundreds if not thousands of fighters for their cause, against us.

Does it not bother you that the World thinks that we have lost our damned minds for electing this man for a second term? That we are now viewed as religious extremists who are pursuing an aggressive policy against other countries? That we have appointed ourselves the policemen of the world (*only applies to countries with rich oil reserves)?

And for your allegations that certain posts would be banned if they attacked gays or a certain race but that it's okay here to fire away at certain other groups (i.e. Republicans)--that's just a misrepresentation and you know it.

The truth is that you can't defend these positions and you know it or else you'd be making multiple posts like the liberals on this board do. But you can't because there's no there--there.

And you know, or you should know, in your heart of hearts that discriminating against the poor, and homosexuals, and other minorities is WRONG.

Please explain to me how Republicans and Conservatives came to be a protected minority when you control the White House, both Houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court? That's not a minority-it's a majority and I don't believe that special protection extends to majority groups, either here or in the "real world".

And on edit---if you have articles proving your positions or that support your view, by all means, post them. See, being liberal means having an open mind and I'm not afraid to read "the other side's" viewpoints. But they had better be grounded in firm fact or I'm going to pick them apart because that's something else liberals are good at--questioning the status quo and not drinking the kool-aid.

dissention · #6 11-08-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

Hey Blue Staters!

Here's a Fleetwood Mac fan, Alabamian, Christian, Republican and overall basic lover of humanity who dropped in on Chit Chat, knowing what he would find, but dismayed by it all the same.

Dismayed because:
--vitriol is vitriol no matter what side it comes from
--in the process of accusing others of intolerance, many resort to intolerance themselves
--the same outpouring of hatred many of you accuse "Red Staters" of seems to go unchecked and practically unnoticed in your own ranks
--the same type of lashing out against homosexuals, African-Americans or other minority group would likely result in the offending parties being banned from this board (i.e., some brash, misguided individual posting a map branding New York state "Gayville")

It hurts when someone disagrees with you, and it hurts to lose a tough fight. But it also hurts to be openly ridiculed and beat to the dust by people who have absolutely no respect or understanding for what you believe, yet hate you for it without even asking.

None of you here know me, and thereby have no business making assumptions about me personally. But rest easy in the knowledge that you have made me feel most unwelcome at The Ledge.

Thanks, and congratulations for your "tolerance" ... and feel free to flame me into oblivion.

That's alright, I feel unwelcome in this country.

As for the rest, ever stop to realize that people do understand what you believe and that's why they have no respect for it? My apologies, but I simply do not respect the belief that we should be in Iraq and killing innocent people or the belief that a woman does not have the right to choose. If you can sleep at night knowing that this country has gone to hell in a handbasket, I congratualte you. But don't expect people to respect such views that you might have about the direction this country is going into. Hell knows I don't expect Biblethumpers to respect my "loony" views. There's a fundamental difference between respecting a person's right to hold certain views and respecting a certain view itself.

dissention · #7 11-08-2004, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

I'm one who does not agree with either of you. And I'm glad the two of you are so happy with the Chimp because I'm not!

For the record, a Southern Baptist and I live in South Carolina. And I'm a Democrat because I'm a Christian. I believe in helping the poor, and the downtrodden, and that all men (and women) are created equal. I own and have read several different translations of the Bible, and you know, in not a single one of those versions, do I recall Jesus hanging out with the rich and the powerful. He chased the moneychangers out of the temple. He fed the poor. He cured the sick. His friends were the poor, the lepers, and the prostitutes. The lowest of the low--no where do I recall Jesus taking trips on the corporate jets with his buddies from Enron (you know what I'm talking about here).

Yet, the warfare, and it is indeed warfare, that Republicans have engaged in against Democrats would have you believe that casting a vote for the Democrats is the same as voting for Satan. This is just beyond ridiculous. Yet, some Christians have been so misled by the Republicans that they have swallowed this malarky hook, line, and sinker. And they will, one day, I predict, choke on it as a result.

It's remarkable to me that George Bush, a man who only goes to Church during election years (and even that's pretty rare) can proclaim himself to be a Christian and everyone believes it. I say that you should be known by your works--not your words. And I see a president who has cut funding for the poor, for the aged, for children, for education, for social programs across the board. This is being a Christian???? Yet, he has no problems further enriching the wealthy and for endorsing programs and erasing laws that protect the environment and individuals from corporations. Doesn't that bother you? Because it should. In fact, it should scare you to death.

Let me ask you this--do you really think that the Anti-Christ would appear and proclaim himself the Anti-Christ? Of course not, he (or she) will put the most attractive, genial face on their evil as they possibly can. The Bible's pretty clear on this--it says that "many shall arise in my name." Just something to think about there for you today.

Does it not bother any of you who voted for this man that the very places that were attacked on 9/11 voted AGAINST this president? Does it bother you that he was warned that we were going to be attacked and did NOTHING about it? That he ignored the warnings?

Does it not bother you that there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein had a direct involvement in 9/11 or with Osama Bin Laden? or that there have been NO Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Iraq? That over 100,000 innocent civilians have been murdered in Iraq by our troops? And for what? Why are we there? This has not kept us safer and has instead, enabled Osama Bin Laden and the other terrorist groups to recruit hundreds if not thousands of fighters for their cause, against us.

Does it not bother you that the World thinks that we have lost our damned minds for electing this man for a second term? That we are now viewed as religious extremists who are pursuing an aggressive policy against other countries? That we have appointed ourselves the policemen of the world (*only applies to countries with rich oil reserves)?

And for your allegations that certain posts would be banned if they attacked gays or a certain race but that it's okay here to fire away at certain other groups (i.e. Republicans)--that's just a misrepresentation and you know it.

The truth is that you can't defend these positions and you know it or else you'd be making multiple posts like the liberals on this board do. But you can't because there's no there--there.

And you know, or you should know, in your heart of hearts that discriminating against the poor, and homosexuals, and other minorities is WRONG.

Please explain to me how Republicans and Conservatives came to be a protected minority when you control the White House, both Houses of Congress, and the Supreme Court? That's not a minority-it's a majority and I don't believe that special protection extends to majority groups, either here or in the "real world".

And on edit---if you have articles proving your positions or that support your view, by all means, post them. See, being liberal means having an open mind and I'm not afraid to read "the other side's" viewpoints. But they had better be grounded in firm fact or I'm going to pick them apart because that's something else liberals are good at--questioning the status quo and not drinking the kool-aid.

Tell the gal what she's won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DrummerDeanna · #8 11-08-2004, 03:08 PM

I stopped taking things personally - because I think the problem many have on here is with the religious right - and come on - I think they're justified in their anger and such...

Now - no, I don't agree that it makes things better to just bash and demean those you are against, but it sometimes just allows an avenue to vent and therefore feel a little better - finding folks who agree with you and such...

Furthermore - I think the problem is - like it or not - Christianitly SHOULD NOT be ruling our country - I am a Christian and a believer - but I recognize that not everyone is that way - and I have to (and gladly) accept that because what is right for me is not right for everyone.

I know a lot of Christians feels justified because they know the "truth" but um...ya know - every other religion says the same thing....so whatever man - that theory doesn't float for everyone and therefore religion needs to be kept out of politics and it's not.

I want someone to give me ONE just one good, logical and well thought out reason against Gay Marraige - that has NOTHING to do with religion or faith - and I'll listen with an open-mind...but no one's been able to do that because it's totally a religious thing - errrggg.....

Anyway - let me ask - and I do respect the views of others - at least I Try to - it IS hard when people use God to divide and take away people's rights...anyway with ALL of the evidence of the wrongs Bush has done...why ? why? support a man who clearly has an agenda that is based soley on religion and class? I truly don't understand and it deeply saddens me...

DeeGeMe · #9 11-08-2004, 03:08 PM

Diss said:
Tell the gal what she's won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You, and Goldie, and the Democratic Underground taught me everything I know. (Well, that and my 40 years of living and my degrees in English and Poliltical Science.)

strandinthewind · #10 11-08-2004, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieSPC

Hey Blue Staters!

Here's a Fleetwood Mac fan, Alabamian, Christian, Republican and overall basic lover of humanity who dropped in on Chit Chat, knowing what he would find, but dismayed by it all the same.

Dismayed because:
--vitriol is vitriol no matter what side it comes from
--in the process of accusing others of intolerance, many resort to intolerance themselves
--the same outpouring of hatred many of you accuse "Red Staters" of seems to go unchecked and practically unnoticed in your own ranks
--the same type of lashing out against homosexuals, African-Americans or other minority group would likely result in the offending parties being banned from this board (i.e., some brash, misguided individual posting a map branding New York state "Gayville")

It hurts when someone disagrees with you, and it hurts to lose a tough fight. But it also hurts to be openly ridiculed and beat to the dust by people who have absolutely no respect or understanding for what you believe, yet hate you for it without even asking.

None of you here know me, and thereby have no business making assumptions about me personally. But rest easy in the knowledge that you have made me feel most unwelcome at The Ledge.

Thanks, and congratulations for your "tolerance" ... and feel free to flame me into oblivion.

For the record, when I go off on the Republican party, it almost always is supported by facts so there is no assuming there on my part :srhug:

Moreover, I am not usually talking about all Republicans. In fact, far from it and I usually point that out. I am almost always talking about the far religious right (Flawell, Robertson, etc.) - which the current Pres. of the U.S. used to get himself elected and is now beholden to!!!!!!! I do not think there can be any argument about that as it is widely accepted as fact

I find that scary because those people are not about respecting anyone but what they perceive as a Christian, which is not even what the Catholic Church perceives as such. I mean the Catholic Church opposed the war in Iraq and is against the death penalty.

So, I am sorry if you took personally anything I said about the far religious right (Robertson, Falwell, etc.) if you are not part of that group. What I am not sorry for is attacking that intolerant ilk with fact based arguments. I mean if you put the shoe on the other foot for a secons and you were beaten down and called an unnatural against God sinner every day sometimes many times a day, lived in fear of someone beating the crap out of you just because you are different, and then told YOU were responsible for the terrorist attacks on America but are not clean enough to fight for your country unless you stay in the closet, I think you just might raise your voice. Well, that is how just about all of the gay Americans and those sho support them feel. I mean what are they supposed to do, have a sit in (levity on a serious topic

) while W and his cronies rape America and deny anyone but the Christians govt. protected rights. That is B.S. and if it offends you to hear it called that - so be it.

I will say this though, I agree the hate comes from both sides and I, too, get sick of it. But, I am unsure how to stop it because, again, it is hard to not react in kind.

Tone: civil and with repsect

dissention · #11 11-08-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

Diss said:
Tell the gal what she's won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You, and Goldie, and the Democratic Underground taught me everything I know. (Well, that and my 40 years of living and my degrees in English and Poliltical Science.)

Me?! Oh, darling, what a compliment.

Alison · #12 11-08-2004, 03:11 PM

By the way to make something clear. I did not vote for Bush. I'm a Canadian.
If I was American, would I vote for Bush. Probably not, but I didn't care for Kerry either.
I think the poster was offended mostly for the Jesus land map, and the intolerance for Christians that seems to be on this board. Please don't paint us with the same brush as Jerry Farwelll, or what ever his name is, or even with Bush. But don't bash us becasue we have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord and Savour, that you can not understand, or care to.

DrummerDeanna · #13 11-08-2004, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison

By the way to make something clear. I did not vote for Bush. I'm a Canadian.
If I was American, would I vote for Bush. Probably not, but I didn't care for Kerry either.
I think the poster was offended mostly for the Jesus land map, and the intolerance for Christians that seems to be on this board. Please don't paint us with the same brush as Jerry Farwelll, or what ever his name is, or even with Bush. But don't bash us becasue we have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord and Savour, that you can not understand, or care to.

That I can agree with - I sure as hell AM NOT in the same category as - um that guy mentioned above....

DeeGeMe · #14 11-08-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison

By the way to make something clear. I did not vote for Bush. I'm a Canadian.
If I was American, would I vote for Bush. Probably not, but I didn't care for Kerry either.
I think the poster was offended mostly for the Jesus land map, and the intolerance for Christians that seems to be on this board. Please don't paint us with the same brush as Jerry Farwelll, or what ever his name is, or even with Bush. But don't bash us becasue we have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord and Savour, that you can not understand, or care to.

And my post was to point out that I am a Christian and a Liberal. I think, therefore, I am both.

amber · #15 11-08-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison

I think the poster was offended mostly for the Jesus land map,

Actually, there is nothing inherently offensive in that map. Look again, it only says "Jesusland" and "United States of Canada" - No offensive words or anything. And, clearly, you don't find the word "Jesus" offensive, and probably not "Canada" either. Unless you were offended that where you live wasn't included as part of Jesusland?