I knew it! Kerry is a conservative

[CarneVaca]

From the horse's mouth:

"I'm a hunter. I'm a gun owner. A lot of people on the left don't like that, but that's who I am," he said.

The Massachusetts senator has already begun his effort to broaden his political reach. During a recent swing through the Midwest, where he tramped around farms and toted a shotgun on a trap-shooting range, Kerry said that he represented "conservative values," and emphasized his personal opposition to abortion.

Conservative values!? Yeah, well, stick 'em, pal.

So let's review. Kerry...

--Voted to attack Iraq.
--Opposes withdrawing from Iraq.
--Supports Sharon and the Bush roadmap for the Palestine conflict.
--Supports the Israel's "security fence" that is strangling the Palestinians even though he told Palestinians last year that it was not needed.
--Is "pro-life," saying he believes life begins at conception.
--Opposes gay marriage.
--Voted for the Patriot Act.
--Voted for No Child Left Behind.

Gotta love those Democrats for giving the voters a real alternative.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

From the horse's mouth:

"I'm a hunter. I'm a gun owner. A lot of people on the left don't like that, but that's who I am," he said.

The Massachusetts senator has already begun his effort to broaden his political reach. During a recent swing through the Midwest, where he tramped around farms and toted a shotgun on a trap-shooting range, Kerry said that he represented "conservative values," and emphasized his personal opposition to abortion.

Conservative values!? Yeah, well, stick 'em, pal.

So let's review. Kerry...

--Voted to attack Iraq.
--Opposes withdrawing from Iraq.
--Supports Sharon and the Bush roadmap for the Palestine conflict.
--Supports the Israel's "security fence" that is strangling the Palestinians even though he told Palestinians last year that it was not needed.
--Is "pro-life," saying he believes life begins at conception.
--Opposes gay marriage.
--Voted for the Patriot Act.
--Voted for No Child Left Behind.

Gotta love those Democrats for giving the voters a real alternative.

He said that ("I'm a conservative, More conservative than the conservatives claim to be"-John Kerry) back during the Oklahoma primary and it buried him, He finished a distant third to the eventual winner Clark & runner-up Edwards.

Btw, ya left out that Kerry also voted against the Laci Peterson act which protects pregnant women.

[strandinthewind]

Bless your heart - owning a gun does not make you a conservative I know many a D that has more than one. I know I know you hate them, but many like them and then there is that whole pesky Second Amendment issue

Seriously, as I have said many times before, getting rid of all guns is nice notion, but it will NEVER happen EVER. So, I say the best path is to regulate them to the effect of making people regiter them every year and making them do a new balistics test every year. But, that is too onerous for the NRA and that is why IMO the NRA is as insane as the people who thinks ridding the America is a feasible plan.

AND - the is issue is pro-choice. When I personally think life begins does not really factor into the equation. My opinion on whether I think you (general) should have the choice to make up your own mind is the SOLE issue in abortion as long as the first trimester issue in Roe holds. Interestingly, Roe does not base its holding of life begining at conception. It is based solely on the viability of the fetus (which has always been alive or at least capable of life in some fashion) outside of the womb. For now, that is after the first trimester.

[dissention]

Yup, I don't know if I'll be voting Kerry in November, that's for damn sure. I'm in MA, so it really wouldn't make a difference if I did or didn't; he's going to take this state anyway. Unfortunately, I don't know if I'd be able to live with myself if I did vote Kerry. I've been very disatisfied with him lately and I think I'm going to curtail my support.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yup, I don't know if I'll be voting Kerry in November, that's for damn sure. I'm in MA, so it really wouldn't make a difference if I did or didn't; he's going to take this state anyway. Unfortunately, I don't know if I'd be able to live with myself if I did vote Kerry. I've been very disatisfied with him lately and I think I'm going to curtail my support.

Hell just was hit by the largest iceberg outbreak & sub-zero temperatures in it's LONG history...Just kiddin' ya

[dissention]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Hell just was hit by the largest iceberg outbreak & sub-zero temperatures in it's LONG history...Just kiddin' ya

[CarneVaca]

Jason, I wasn't talking about just guns. Besides, it appears your interpretation of the Second Amendment differs from mine. I can read, and I know what it says, and what it says is not what the NRA says it says.

Dissention, can't say I'm surprised. I've picked up some vibes from you lately.

Also, my own revelation:

I'm not sure I'm voting for Nader now. I am looking at the Green Party candidate.

But I WILL NOT VOTE FOR KERRY.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Dissention, can't say I'm surprised. I've picked up some vibes from you lately.

Also, my own revelation:

I'm not sure I'm voting for Nader now. I am looking at the Green Party candidate.

But I WILL NOT VOTE FOR KERRY.

Yup, I've had it up to here with the bull****. He's a neocon in sheeps clothing, the only thing that distinguishes him is that he has a better track record on the environment. At this point, his campaign is in tatters because NO ONE knows where he stands on things. People are sick of the backtracking, myself included.

No Nader, no Kerry, so...David Cobb it is for me.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by dissention

No Nader, no Kerry, so...David Cobb it is for me.

I may soon join you.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yup, I've had it up to here with the bull****. He's a neocon in sheeps clothing, the only thing that distinguishes him is that he has a better track record on the environment. At this point, his campaign is in tatters because NO ONE knows where he stands on things. People are sick of the backtracking, myself included.

No Nader, no Kerry, so...David Cobb it is for me.

Exactly dissention..Kerry should be presenting a clear cut message on where he stands on the issues...Bashing Bush on everything he does will not win him an election in the end IMO...He should also be focused on us undecided voters (like myself), who if he gave a reason to vote for him...would...but all he cares to do IMO is bash Bush...ok we get that point already Kerry, we know you dont like Bush and disagree with the Iraq war...give us something else! Will there be a NONE OF THE ABOVE box on the ballot this year???

Chris

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by ShangriLaTroubl

Will there be a NONE OF THE ABOVE box on the ballot this year???

except instead of stating "None Of The Above" it will say "The Next American Idol"

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Jason, I wasn't talking about just guns. Besides, it appears your interpretation of the Second Amendment differs from mine. I can read, and I know what it says, and what it says is not what the NRA says it says.

I was talking of the USSC's interpretation of the Second Amendment because the U.S. Const has not been strictly inpterpreted for well over 100 years - see Roe and the expansion of the right to privacy, a right mentioned no where in the Const. Their opinion is the law and they see the Second Amendment not just within the confines of a "militia" Plus, there is no way the Founding Fathers meant in any way to exclude personal ownership of guns, etc., since they all had guns and the thought at the time was almost nonexistent But, that is a far cry from saying the right of ownership of guns without any regulation violates the Second Amendment; clearly there needs to be HEAVY regulation of them A good example is the right to free speech does not allow a person to scream "fire" in a crowded theatre. That part of free speech is curtailed to protect society. Again, if we could get rid of all of the guns, I am all for it. I just think that is impossible and not facing the situation with any reasonable or practicle solution.

Also, I was commenting on the statements "I'm a hunter. I'm a gun owner. A lot of people on the left don't like that, but that's who I am" and "During a recent swing through the Midwest, where he tramped around farms and toted a shotgun on a trap-shooting range, Kerry said that he represented "conservative values," and emphasized his personal opposition to abortion." I took that to mean toting a shotgun was inconsistent with being a liberal, which I commented on. Then, I commented on the abortion thing being about freedom of choice and just because someone thinks life begins at conception and that abortion is wrong, does not mean they are anti-prochoice. I know many people who think that way who are SCREAMING liberals - look at James Carville

Anyway - food for thought and not meant in an antagonistic manner

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Yup, I've had it up to here with the bull****. He's a neocon in sheeps clothing, the only thing that distinguishes him is that he has a better track record on the environment. At this point, his campaign is in tatters because NO ONE knows where he stands on things. People are sick of the backtracking, myself included.

No Nader, no Kerry, so...David Cobb it is for me.

I guess I am just more practicle. I want W out so bad and I know Kerry is the only other horse in the race. I hate that it is a two horse race, but that is the way it is. I know Carne has said that social upheaval is a good thing and may happen if W gets reelected, but I do not think that will ever happen and I think the damage W could do in his second term is not worth the risk, etc. So, while I agree Kerry is not my ideal by any means, I will vote for him in a minute to try and ensure the rejection of W.

BTW - I think Kerry is depending on a lot of people just like me.

As an aside, I think people expect too meuch from politicians. No one is ever going to fall within a simple set of labels

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

From the horse's mouth:

"I'm a hunter. I'm a gun owner. A lot of people on the left don't like that, but that's who I am," he said.

The Massachusetts senator has already begun his effort to broaden his political reach. During a recent swing through the Midwest, where he tramped around farms and toted a shotgun on a trap-shooting range, Kerry said that he represented "conservative values," and emphasized his personal opposition to abortion.

Conservative values!? Yeah, well, stick 'em, pal.

So let's review. Kerry...

--Voted to attack Iraq.
--Opposes withdrawing from Iraq.
--Supports Sharon and the Bush roadmap for the Palestine conflict.
--Supports the Israel's "security fence" that is strangling the Palestinians even though he told Palestinians last year that it was not needed.
--Is "pro-life," saying he believes life begins at conception.
--Opposes gay marriage.
--Voted for the Patriot Act.
--Voted for No Child Left Behind.

Gotta love those Democrats for giving the voters a real alternative.

This really depresses me . So either way it looks like four more years of Bush.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Then, I commented on the abortion thing being about freedom of choice and just because someone thinks life begins at conception and that abortion is wrong, does not mean they are anti-prochoice. I know many people who think that way who are SCREAMING liberals

Interestingly, you made me recall a conversation I had with a liberal friend just before the 2000 election. At the time, it seemed the Democrats' major objection to voting for Nader (aside from the bull**** vote-stealing rationale) was the issue of abortion. Now, I believe in the right to choose, but that single issue does not determine my vote.

Anyway, during this conversation, I mentioned to my friend that I wished there were fewer abortions. You would think I had condemned any and all women who ever had, or thought about having, an abortion. Her reaction was almost violent. I had to very gingerly explain that I wasn't condemning anyone and that I fully support the right to choose as defined by Roe v. Wade, but that personally I would rather see the number of abortions decrease and that I probably would not opt for one if I ever were in a position to contribute to such a decision.

Now comes Kerry and he says he is personally opposed to abortion and that he believes life starts at conception. I'll have to ask my friend if this bothers her.

Aside from that, shouldn't John Kerry limit himself to declaring whether he supports Roe v. Wade? Saying he personally opposes abortion is such a scoundrel's defense to make himself look good to the conservatives.