When I See You Again Appreciation Post!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by sodascouts
Yes. Look in the Uncut magazine article and you will find it - don't have time to read it again myself!

Much thanks!!!!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Meanwhile, personally I'm surprised that not everyone who listened to Illume for the first time had a tear in their eye and thought 'How did she do it'. Stevie and the band were never going to release a song directly referring to 9/11. Except obviously the title directly referred to it, which still surprises me. But the song itself is an ethereal dirge about massive grief and trauma, being scared witless, being haunted at night...
One of my favourite lines goes something like 'When you haunt us, just remember that I was so scared' ('I was so scared' I read as sort of meaning 'I was levelled by sympathy for you'). It's that idea of being haunted that I assume inspired Lindsey to do that ghost voice. I get the impression that it ruins the song for some people because it stands out too much, whereas for me it just takes the song to an even deeper level. Plus, in terms of arrangement/production, it sets up Stevie for that awesome refrain sung in a higher, louder register. When she sings that, it's like she's shouting down the ghost, and by the end of the song it sounds like she's lulling into peaceful sleep, like she's successfully dealt with her demons. I love it!

Thanks, Joe!
From now on, I'll just quote you when I want to explain what I think is so amazing about "Illumé!"

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
And hopefully dissention knows that too!

You know I do, doll.

Here's my take on the whole WTWCT self-indulgence vs. the Illume self-indulgence:

IMO, What's the World Coming To is a song where unless you're a hardcore fan, you aren't going to know what the song is about. (I'm still not convinced that it is entirely about the music biz, though) The lyrics are vague enough where it can relate to many different life experiences or someone's view of the world in general. It doesn't scream "They hated my record, so here's bitter song for the motherf*ckers!" It's very vague in what it's about, therefore making it more accessible.

Illume, on the other hand, is noted as being about 9/11, but it isn't so much about 9/11 as it is about one persons view of those events. While that isn't a bad thing, and I genuinely believe that her heart was in the right place, it won't be accessible to a great deal of people for the simple fact that everyone has (or had) different feelings about those events. Not everyone burned Nag Champa in their rooms to mask the smell, etc. It can very well alienate the listener because of it's constraint of being about only one persons feelings. Stevie repeatedly uses "I" in the song and one starts to wonder if she couldn't have at least made one collective mention about everyone else and how they've been affected by those tragic events. I just think she over-indulges with it being about her throughout the entire song. "What I saw," "The candle that I burn," "I will not take you for granted," "I like the coastal cities," "I cannot pretend," etc.

However, after saying that, I think the song contains one of the most beautiful lyrics I've ever heard in my life:

I will not take you for granted
I wouldn't trade you for jade
Or for diamonds
Not for anything
Not for a minute

[strandinthewind]

Here is aquote I got from http://www.sararhiannon.com/syw_album.html (many thanks )

"Illume is a very interesting song,actually. I wrote it after September 11th, you know, so it was one of the first I wrote after those tragedies. It’s just about making it, you know. I was sitting there, thinking about those horrible tragedies in October of 2001, and I was sitting there with just me in the room, and the candle was lit. I love candles, you know. And my heart was still so heavy from everything, and I didn’t know quite what would happen, and we were all like that, confused.
I didn’t set out to write a September 11th song, it just happened. It goes “Illume, says the candle that I burn, a reflection in the window,” and that’s just about the inspiration for the song. And I tell you, my heart was so very heavy and full at this time, I was so confused. And then there are some other parts…
"And I am alone with my thoughts, And how we could make it – And what we have been through, all of the trauma.” I also wrote one called “Get Back on the Plane,” and a song called “The Towers Touched the Sky,” but it was just too depressing."
~Stevie Nicks, 2003


I still maintain that the songs power comes from her IMO brilliant reference to "nag champra." For me, in that one moment and phrase she depicts and envisions herself lighting the incense a few monthws later at her LA home and the smell taking her back to when she had to burn it to cover the smell of terror, death, and scorched people and buildings ( ). Here we are almost a year later and I have chills and the same vision as if I was there with her on that day. That is pretty powerful to me.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
“Get Back on the Plane,”

We all saw the lyrics to that stinkbomb.

[sparky]

Originally posted by dissention
. While that isn't a bad thing, and I genuinely believe that her heart was in the right place, it won't be accessible to a great deal of people for the simple fact that everyone has (or had) different feelings about those events. Not everyone burned Nag Champa in their rooms to mask the smell, etc. It can very well alienate the listener because of it's constraint of being about only one persons feelings. Stevie repeatedly uses "I" in the song and one starts to wonder if she couldn't have at least made one collective mention about everyone else and how they've been affected by those tragic events. I just think she over-indulges with it being about her throughout the entire song. "What I saw," "The candle that I burn," "I will not take you for granted," "I like the coastal cities," "I cannot pretend," etc.

As is often the case, D, I agree with your statement. This is my central argument about why some of Stevie's songs do not appeal to more people. The stuff gets too specific and specific to a life that is radically different from average people. I too think this song came from a genuine and authentic place, but it doesn't really move me. The production, wacky voices notwithstanding, is stellar. However, emotionally, it hits me about the same as 'Desert Angel'. How something can be too specific and too vague at the same time is puzzling, but the song is both to me. Happy to hear it means so much to others, though.

[CarneVaca]

I might have liked Illume if I hadn't been in Manhattan that day, not all that far from Ground Zero. It's just that when I heard the song it didn't speak to me at all. I couldn't relate to it. I understood what Stevie and Lindsey were doing musically, and I think musically it's very effective, but from a lyrical standpoint, it simply left me cold. Perhaps calling it "drivel" was too harsh. Even I don't really believe that. My issue with the song goes back to what I keep complaining about in Stevie's music--lack of editing. Certain words shouldn't be there, but I've said all this before.

As for What's the World Coming To, it's not even as musically interesting as Illume, except that it's catchy in an effortless sort of way. The lyrics are cool, though the "gone to the moon" line makes me cringe a bit. Is it self-indulgent? Perhaps, if indeed it is about the record industry, but there's nothing else about the song that is self-indulgent--no drawn out solos, no weird effects, nothing that I would call indulgent. And if Lindsey hadn't said it's about the industry, it could apply to anything. And in the ears of most listeners, I bet it has nothing to do with the industry.

[dissention]

Originally posted by sparky
As is often the case, D, I agree with your statement. This is my central argument about why some of Stevie's songs do not appeal to more people. The stuff gets too specific and specific to a life that is radically different from average people. I too think this song came from a genuine and authentic place, but it doesn't really move me. The production, wacky voices notwithstanding, is stellar. However, emotionally, it hits me about the same as 'Desert Angel'. How something can be too specific and too vague at the same time is puzzling, but the song is both to me. Happy to hear it means so much to others, though.

When I first heard it, it reminded of the drivel that is "Ghosts." "She depends on her music like a husband..." Help me, I'm gagging! How would that song relate to anyone?

[DownOnRodeo]

Carne, I can easily imagine how, aside from everyone experiencing things differently, anyone who was in NY or around Ground Zero at the time could have a very different view on Illume or indeed be apprehensive about it. Which is why in my opinion Stevie shouldnt've called it 9/11 and, perhaps to a lesser extent, dedicated it to Rudy Guiliani and the firemen etc. But then i don't like the idea of telling Stevie what to call her songs and who to dedicate them to, either. But yeah, maybe if it was just called Illume, not Illume (9/11), it could be understood in a more general sense. In fact, it would have really added so much mystique. Imagine hearing that song for the first time and not knowing what Stevie said it was about. And add some contradictory quotes about its inspiration up on inherownwords

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
As for What's the World Coming To, it's not even as musically interesting as Illume, except that it's catchy in an effortless sort of way. The lyrics are cool, though the "gone to the moon" line makes me cringe a bit. Is it self-indulgent?

That wailing at the end strikes me as a candidate for self-indulgence! Meanwhile, that song is growing on me a lot. 'Everyone's gooone to the moon' is actually starting to strike a chord with me, and I think of that song as often as Murrow Turning Over in my day to day life.

Wasn't this thread about WISYA? To be honest I've only read from the last few pages onwards anyway. Who knows where or how it turned into a thread about Illume


What's this thread coming to?
What they say about you...
Stevie don't feel sad:
Very few of your songs are bad.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Thanks, Joe!
From now on, I'll just quote you when I want to explain what I think is so amazing about "Illumé!"

Phew, thanks JS. I went out on a limb thinking I would probably be the only one to see it that way.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
When I first heard it, it reminded of the drivel that is "Ghosts." "She depends on her music like a husband..." Help me, I'm gagging! How would that song relate to anyone?

*lol*
Actually, I do relate to that one... as pathetic as that sounds.

No husband to curl up to at night for comfort or warmth, but the headphones are always on and the music is ever present.

"To fill the empty spaces she's feeling,
She depends on her music like a husband,
And she knows it's no good to fall in love again.
One day, they were lovers... one day, they were friends...
There was nothing left to say...."

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
What's this thread coming to?
What they say about you...
Stevie don't feel sad:
Very few of your songs are bad.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I still maintain that the songs power comes from her IMO brilliant reference to "nag champra." For me, in that one moment and phrase she depicts and envisions herself lighting the incense a few monthws later at her LA home and the smell taking her back to when she had to burn it to cover the smell of terror, death, and scorched people and buildings ( ). Here we are almost a year later and I have chills and the same vision as if I was there with her on that day. That is pretty powerful to me.

Thanks for posting that quote from SaraRhiannon's site, Jason.

Have you read this one? I think it says it all....

Well, you know I didn't write "Illume (9-11)" to try and be political. I wrote it because I had arrived in New York at 3 o'clock in the morning, in the middle of the night, and had gone to the Waldorf Astoria hotel and got there at 4:30 and then unpacked, went to bed at 7:30, and then somewhere between 10:30 and 11, my assistant came in and tapped me on the shoulder and said, "I think you need to wake up and see what's happening." And so I was in New York for three days, and it was so disturbing, and "Illume" was a poem that I wrote when I got back to Los Angeles at the end of that tour. There was part of me that thought I might never get home. It was so frightening out there. So I wrote this poem "Illume," and when I went home two months later, I wanted to write a few new songs for this record and pulled all of my poetry out from my journals that I had from over that year and the tour, and I pulled out the "Illume" poem. I thought, "Maybe I can very subtly put this to music."
I never expected it to be a song that would be anything more than for the people that were in New York City that day. Because I can't write about how everybody else felt--I can only write about how I felt and how I feel New Yorkers felt that day, that morning. So I'm very, very proud of that song. I wanted to say something for those people. That would be forever.

Even though she wrote a poem/song that reflected her feelings that day, I think she did an amazing job of capturing the fear and disorientation felt by those of us who watched helplessly as the day's events unfolded.

And even though the song's lyrics are specific to Stevie's particular reaction, we know that she was definitely thinking beyond herself that day... personally taking food down to the firemen working in and around Ground Zero, as well as lending financial assistance to the wife and newborn child of one of the Backstreet Boys' crew-members who died on Flight 11, as he was returning home for the birth of his daughter.

A very classy lady, who has shown on many occasions that she is generous and compassionate.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Even though she wrote a poem/song that reflected her feelings that day, I think she did an amazing job of capturing the fear and disorientation felt by those of us who watched helplessly as the day's events unfolded.

And even though the song's lyrics are specific to Stevie's particular reaction, we know that she was definitely thinking beyond herself that day... personally taking food down to the firemen working in and around Ground Zero, as well as lending financial assistance to the wife and newborn child of one of the Backstreet Boys' crew-members who died on Flight 11, as he was returning home for the birth of his daughter.

A very classy lady, who has shown on many occasions that she is generous and compassionate.

Like I said, I admire her effort. I was in Boston on 9/11, watching the news in my hotel room, and I think everyone felt a sense of shock and amazement at what happened. Stevie did a good job at expressing her feelings towards what happened, but it still leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I will clearly state that I think a 9/11 song should not be done; it just shouldn't. No matter how true the song is, it cheapens the events. That's just how I feel about it.

Now, Johnny, no one is questioning whether she thought beyond herself that day. I don't see a point in the things you brought up about helping the firefighters and such; that is not the issue and helps no argument. The issue is the song and whether some feel that it is self-indulgent on Stevie's part, which I believe it is and I've stated my reasons. Her compassion is not at hand here, her song is.

Taking that quote on face value, my response would be to can the idea of recording Illume. Yes, Stevie, we know that you were affected by those events; we all were. But to release a song about your personal experiences and emotions of those events is not necessarily the right thing to do. It will alienate people, especially some listeners who aren't die-hard fans, and even die-hards will feel a tad alienated (as proven in this thread). To focus those events on just one person kind of trivializes things. We all know, whether we would like to admit it or not (and I'm not directing this towards you, Johnny! LOL), that Stevie is a self-indulgent writer. Just listen to Ghosts, I Sing For the Things, Desert Angel, or After the Glitter Fades. Illume is one of those indulgences.

I don't think Stevie thought about how her song could be construed by some and I don't believe that she was doing anything out of ill-will; I thinks she's a genuine person whose heart was in the right place. I just think it backfired this time around, though.