#136
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Definitely agree. What I was trying to do is figure out the thought process within Stevie, and also Mick/McVies/Azoff that got them to a point where firing Lindsey became a viable option, because it's clear that she and Lindsey probably stopped getting along in any kind of consistent way in 1976, except for a brief respite around The Dance, and the show of affection they/Stevie put on for the media to sell tickets between 1997 and 2016. Like, they were willing to milk that faux-romantic LB/SN stage dynamic for just about 20 years to sell tickets after The Dance, so I found it interesting to figure out what changed to make them decide to boot Lindsey after all that time.
Stevie is a master marketer of her image, and she is aware that talking about Lindsey sells. Maybe she wanted to clear her name because she saw some online backlash to the firing but she also has consistently mentioned Lindsey in her solo press for many, many years. They broke up in 1976, and he stopped having any real role in producing music with her in 2003, so he has very little relevance to her musical projects or her personal life. Yet, she talks about him a whole lot. It's best to just ignore all of it, because it's wildly inconsistent and mostly untrue. |
#137
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^ I think Lindsey would've been fired before the 2009, 13, or 14 Tour if they all believe Carol Ann Harris.
Mick kept Lindsey because none of those clowns knew how to be a director or an "office manager". She can talk about being a restaurant server for a few years but she never worked a job that required critical thinking. Lindsey came up with visions for albums and crafted concert setlists and arrangements. She showed up to a concert rehearsal and all she had to do was say which songs she wanted to sing while sitting on her "director's chair" and say I want a little time to go down stage and bang my head so you guys just jam a little. I don't know what Stevie gains by talking about Lindsey. It brings him more attention. |
#138
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if we're going to look at the behavior of many men in Stevie's life over the years, MANY of them meet various definitions of abuse- maybe not necessarily physical but (to me) clearly emotional and psychological abuse (at a minimum things like gaslighting and demeaning her and her work). I would definitely put Joe at the top of that list. I think JD Souther too in a different way-- he was dismissive of her work and demeaning of her opinions on things. I think Henley had streak of that in him too but I think he didn't dump on her songs/career the way others did. I wouldn't at all say it was abusive but just the idea that Jimmy would shove her in the basement (*figuratively) when she was at that time definitely a BIG star has total shades of male privilege and disrespect. I think Paul Fishkin was lovely to her and a good guy and one of the ones she let get away. Perhaps Hernan too. (though was he the one who dumped his fiancé for Stevie? Not so nice... Might have been someone else who did that). So maybe a bigger issue is for Stevie to have figured out why she lacked the self confidence to assert herself with men in her life, and whether she did so in many cases because she felt that's what she needed to do to move up in her career (also a very #metoo consideration as the system has been rigged that way for a very long time).
Lindsey doesn't suffer fools well-- female OR male. There are plenty of guys who have gotten chewed out by him ; he's a perfectionist who was hard on himself and everyone around him. Clearly he became aware of this a long time ago and addressed it. I mean it's like in a 12 step program-- you recognize whom you've hurt along the way and you apologize to them and make amends. Well it sure feels like LB has tried to do this over and over again to SN......and that seems appropriate....but I don't think anyone has to apologize for having high professional standards and pushing for perfection...and that feels like where they still have a major disconnect because Stevie has been in a position of only hearing compliments for a long time from those around her.
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Last edited by bombaysaffires; 12-17-2020 at 04:52 PM.. |
#139
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I agree -- I don't agree with the justifications that I'm describing, but I think that it was part of the whole picture inside Stevie's head. But that is in no way an endorsement of it. Like I said, they wanted an excuse to do what they wanted and not appear to be the bad guys. I think this played into the mindset, but it's just a theory.
I suspect Stevie was fairly assertive especially at the height of her post-Rumours fame. A lot of the guys she was with seem like jerks, but she didn't seem cowed by any of them. That doesn't mean that she didn't have to put up with a lot of sexist BS. I personally haven't liked any of SN's solo albums since TOSOTM. There have been bits and pieces that have been good, but overall, I find her lyrics generally have crossed the line from self-mythology to straight on narcissism, and I don't like the musical arrangements. I do think Lindsey is really the only one who is producing music that is vital and interesting (and I say this as someone who was lukewarm on his SYW songs overall). As much as I am trying to get inside the mindset, the firing was really the last straw. There's been so much moneygrabbing by FM/Mick over recent years with all the reissues and greatest hits tours, and I was along for ride until now. The thing I find galling about the firing, as a fan, is this -- FM, and especially SN, were willing to milk fan/press interest in her and Lindsey for 20 years after The Dance. Even though it's pretty clear it's been a contentious and fairly toxic relationship the entire time. Stevie was willing to play up the fake romance when she could profit from it, but then she can't be civil and stands on "principle" about not waiting for his solo tour when FM has waited for her solo projects before starting theirs? I think the entire band went along with firing Lindsey because they knew it wouldn't affect them financially. And to me, that cheapens anything we saw from them after maybe the nights when they filmed The Dance. |
#140
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2018 was a rush to do another run through the past tour. The bones of the 2018 set is what they did with Lindsey. They copied Lindsey's Chain, Chris song, and Dreams opening trio that he sequenced for OWTS and MusiCares. Acoustic set in the middle with just Stevie and Neil (that started on Unleashed) And Gold Dust Woman into Go Your Own Way to close the main set and then encore with Don't Stop. They used him then lose him. |
#141
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#142
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if they did, that was the perfect time to air that out, in the height of #metoo. rabid SN stans kept repeating and insinuating SN was an abused woman trying to justify the firing - but all they had was a whisper campaign. if SN had something, why not come out right then - and again, if that was the case would he be stupid enough to risk it with the lawsuit? also, if you remember the way they originally planned it was to say that he left. he just refused to go along with that, went to the press and made it clear he was fired for petty reasons. for months FM statements were all over the place because their prepared statements were that he left and they didn't have good reasoning and story to go with the firing. one last thing - McVies were never onboard with firing. they just were too spineless to try to prevent it. it was never "the whole band wanted to fire LB" - it was always Stevie and probably Azoff, with Mick going along with it for money.
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"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash" |
#143
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They might not have been huge without $tevie, but THEY ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN HUGE WITHOUT LINDSEY.
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Christine McVie- she radiated both purity and sass in equal measure, bringing light to the music of the 70s. RIP. - John Taylor(Duran Duran) |
#144
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Christine has had “Don’t Stop” in the encore set ever since her 1984 tour, which he was also not involved with.
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On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins |
#145
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Lindsey’s firing had nothing to do with abuse or MeToo.
Stevie didn’t need Lindsey or Fleetwood Mac after 1981, yet Stevie continued to work with Lindsey for over 35 years afterwards. That’s simply not consistent with abuse. Not saying he didn’t with other women or that he didn’t work on his demons, but I genuinely do not believe he was abusive towards Stevie. Just compare Stevie and Lindsey to Ike and Tina Turner, where there was actual abuse. Tina got out and never looked back.
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On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins |
#146
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John McVie was the bassist of record for the debut/breakout recordings for John Mayall, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, Aynsley Dunbar, Mick Taylor, Mick Fleetwood, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, Stevie Nicks, and Lindsey Buckingham. That’s ten artists inducted into the Hall of Fame, two multiple times. Coincidence? Spineless? No. He just wanted to go on tour and was probably tired of the BS. What gets him the biggest paycheck? Considering all of the vitally important albums he was on, which tour is better for his legacy? The one that’s full of new songs played in theaters built around the eccentricities of one that will probably be discarded by the next tour or the one representative of the entire career that’s played to arenas?
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On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins Last edited by SteveMacD; 12-18-2020 at 01:51 AM.. |
#147
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And the Peter Green years have NOTHING to do with where they were in 1974. They were going NOWHERE. A minor hit, and milking it by earning minimal money. Big f*cking deal. They all had a debt....an eternal debt to Lindsey, and they welched(no pun intended) on a debt owed.
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Christine McVie- she radiated both purity and sass in equal measure, bringing light to the music of the 70s. RIP. - John Taylor(Duran Duran) Last edited by HomerMcvie; 12-18-2020 at 03:04 AM.. |
#148
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#149
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You're incorrect to bring up '87 because '87 came from 82 Did you know In the Back of My Mind isn't a Chris song? Lindsey created the acoustic portion of the show. Big Love. Landslide. NGBA. To deny that Lindsey didn't craft the Mac setlist template is to deny that every person has an orefice. |
#150
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I often don’t quite understand all that Stevemacd goes on about. But I don’t hear any anger in his quote |
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