Stevie/Mick argument question

bwboy · #1 03-30-2017, 10:49 AM

Stevie was upset because she wanted to put Silver Springs on her TimeSpace/greatest hits CD, and Mick wouldn't allow it, because he wanted to put the song on the Fleetwood Mac 4 CD Chain box set. Of course, they made up and the rest is history, but my question is, since Stevie wrote Silver Springs, how was Mick able to withhold the song from TimeSpace?

This is especially puzzling because in a recent interview, Stevie said her Joan of Arc demo was originally going to be on the Tango Deluxe edition, but she "pulled it" because she plans to record a new version later. So Mick was able to withhold SS from her album, and Stevie was able to pull Joan from a FM album, so I'm really curious as to how the band decides these things.

For example, are all of Stevie's songs she recorded pre-Bella Donna really the property of Fleetwood Mac? Because I really don't understand how Mick could have unilaterally made the decision to put SS on the Chain, unless Stevie agreed? Has Mick or any of the others ever spoke about how they figure these things out?

FuzzyPlum · #2 03-30-2017, 11:10 AM

Silver Springs was the B side for Go Your Own Way so it was already published. I guess that officially made it a Fleetwood Mac song so perhaps there'd be some legal restriction regarding her future use of the song.

Joan of Arc has never be officially released so she'd be free to do whatever she wanted with it.

...I suppose (though I'm still not sure what authority Mick has over these things).

24karatstevie · #3 03-30-2017, 02:22 PM

The biggest thing I don't understand about this argument is why they couldn't have just put Silver Springs on both. I mean was Mick betting on Silver Springs being the biggest selling point for The Chain? If not, I can't see why he wouldn't allow Stevie to put it on Timespace.

Tango · #4 03-30-2017, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

I really don't understand how Mick could have unilaterally made the decision to put SS on the Chain, unless Stevie agreed? Has Mick or any of the others ever spoke about how they figure these things out?

Are you familiar with the Q&A done by Bob Welch here on this website? Bob actually did two of them. If you have the time and patience to read through them, you will find your answer:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/inde...109&Itemid=126

I am sorry but I don't recall which one (either the November 1999 or the August 2003) has the answer, but it's there. But you will learn a great deal as you read through them and probably enjoy Bob's answers.

bwboy · #5 03-30-2017, 05:18 PM

Thanks so much, Tango! The link was a great read and it did give me some idea of why things went down the way they did. Bob was asked how he was able to put Sentimental Lady on his solo album, when Stevie wasn't able to put Silver Springs on her solo album. He said he was able to because he rerecorded his song, whereas Stevie wanted to put the original on her album, not a rerecorded version.

Which then begs the question, why did Mick get to have the final say, as opposed to each member voting? I suppose it's something we'll never be told, and maybe it's really complicated, but I was just curious. Stevie has said she'd like the Buckingham Nicks album to be rereleased, but she has no control over that, yet she was able to put Long Distance Winner on Enchanted. Very interesting.

MikeInNV · #6 03-30-2017, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

Thanks so much, Tango! The link was a great read and it did give me some idea of why things went down the way they did. Bob was asked how he was able to put Sentimental Lady on his solo album, when Stevie wasn't able to put Silver Springs on her solo album. He said he was able to because he rerecorded his song, whereas Stevie wanted to put the original on her album, not a rerecorded version.

Which then begs the question, why did Mick get to have the final say, as opposed to each member voting? I suppose it's something we'll never be told, and maybe it's really complicated, but I was just curious. Stevie has said she'd like the Buckingham Nicks album to be rereleased, but she has no control over that, yet she was able to put Long Distance Winner on Enchanted. Very interesting.

Yes, I remember Stevie being mad because she didn't find out until the last minute that Mick wasn't going to let her have it. She said she could've have recorded a new version if she had found out sooner. Of course it all worked out well for her because the version she did as part of The Dance helped restore her iconic status.

lilyfee · #7 03-30-2017, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

Thanks so much, Tango! The link was a great read and it did give me some idea of why things went down the way they did. Bob was asked how he was able to put Sentimental Lady on his solo album, when Stevie wasn't able to put Silver Springs on her solo album. He said he was able to because he rerecorded his song, whereas Stevie wanted to put the original on her album, not a rerecorded version.

Which then begs the question, why did Mick get to have the final say, as opposed to each member voting? I suppose it's something we'll never be told, and maybe it's really complicated, but I was just curious. Stevie has said she'd like the Buckingham Nicks album to be rereleased, but she has no control over that, yet she was able to put Long Distance Winner on Enchanted. Very interesting.

She has a lot of control over the Buckingham Nicks album, seeing as she and Lindsey own it together... As I understand it, they just need to work together if they want to rerelease.

dreamsunwind · #8 03-31-2017, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilyfee

She has a lot of control over the Buckingham Nicks album, seeing as she and Lindsey own it together... As I understand it, they just need to work together if they want to rerelease.

With Keith Olsen too, as far as I know he also has a part of it.

Macfan4life · #9 03-31-2017, 04:59 AM

Its very relevant to mention the mindset of both Mick and Stevie late 1990 when Timespace was being finalized. Each was deep in their substance abuse world. Earlier that year Stevie openly mentioned and it was reported in the press that she was going to sue Mick about his revelations about her drug use and affair they had together in his book. It was sort of an end (of a chapter) for Fleetwood Mac. The future of the band was really uncertain. I am sure this bothered Mick the most. I don't see Mick bending over backwards to help Stevie in any way. There is a Timespace interview with Stevie on youtube where she mentions it took days for her to reach Mick. He was not returning her calls. She finally hunted down his security director to get a message to him. When they finally spoke, it was a very nasty conversation.
Stevie was not in the best mindset either. Her record company wanted a greatest hits package and wanted hit songs. They brought in writers Jon Bon Jovi thinking it would help her career. I don't understand why she would want to put a Fleetwood Mac recording on her solo album. Of course there should have been a compromise and she could have re-recorded it or something. But these 2 big heads butting each other were not going to give an inch. Timespace was almost finished and then Stevie did a very odd thing and toured well before the album came out. In addition she never promoted any new material on tour. When she toured the summer of 1991 the Gulf War had just ended. I really thought she was going to do Desert Angel for the troops.

bwboy · #10 03-31-2017, 06:19 AM

Thanks, everybody. As for why Stevie wanted to put a FM song (specifically Silver Springs) on her solo best of album, I would say the obvious answer was she wanted people to hear it, since it had been relegated to the B side of a single from almost 15 years prior.

Definitely agreed it all worked out for the best!

Macfan4life · #11 03-31-2017, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

Thanks, everybody. As for why Stevie wanted to put a FM song (specifically Silver Springs) on her solo best of album, I would say the obvious answer was she wanted people to hear it, since it had been relegated to the B side of a single from almost 15 years prior.

Definitely agreed it all worked out for the best!

I am not disagreeing with you. However, Stevie was still bitter about Silver Springs taken off Rumours. IMHO I feel she was right to feel that way because the song is special. However, if you were going to troll Mick into a fight, this would be it. Its rehashing a long feud about the song with each hitting each other below the belt. Mick kept if off Rumours so he definitely was not going to let her put it on Timespace. The song is beautiful in the original form but Stevie should have re-recorded it. Its odd to me to put a FM recording on a solo album since the rest of the band who played on the song should have a say. But I am seeing the big picture here. IMHO its all about the fight and Silver Springs was just the collateral damage. Stevie was very pissed at Mick for what he wrote about her in his book. I just saw this as her counter punch.

**SisterNightroad** · #12 03-31-2017, 07:37 AM

In the '92 interview with the Vox Magazine it says that Mick didn't relent the "performance rights" of the group, whatever it means. The whole interview always seemed a bit shady, however this part should have come mainly from Stevie's mouth:

Now, though, with the apparently final demise of Fleetwood Mac, Stevie is suffering a personal and professional crisis.
The recent Mac troubles can be traced to an old song called Silver Springs. So taken was Stevie's mother by this number that she was moved to open an antique clothing shop in Phoenix in the same name. Stevie made a gift of the song to her.
Silver Springs nearly became a classic, but was dropped at the last minute from the 20-million selling Rumours album. Stevie thought it would be nice to resurrect the song and place it on Timespace. But Mick Fleetwood refused to give up the group's performance rights; he wants the option of having the number on a boxed set due for this year's commemoration of Fleetwood Mac's 25th anniversary.
"I have told the world what a vile thing it was that Mick Fleetwood had done to me, who has fought like a dog for 15 years to keep this band from breaking up. I don't really know what's going through Mick's mind. He never returned a phone call, and he never felt it was his duty to sit down and write a letter to tell me why.
"He has always been very English, and very proper and sometimes very arrogant, but to me a very close and loving friend. And somebody that I always felt I could trust and love" says Stevie, wiping away tears.
"He has always been the boss of the group. He has always made all the decisions. And he has always made all the decisions. And he has always made them without asking anyone else. So he had no reason to do this to us. To break up the whole band."
In the tradition on rock'n'roll's greatest soap opera, Stevie has Fleetwood's soon-to-be ex-wife Sarah on her side. "She's singing with me now, she's a very good friend. She's divorcing Mick after being with him for 13 years; they are completely separated. She doesn't understand."

dreamsunwind · #13 03-31-2017, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

Its very relevant to mention the mindset of both Mick and Stevie late 1990 when Timespace was being finalized. Each was deep in their substance abuse world. Earlier that year Stevie openly mentioned and it was reported in the press that she was going to sue Mick about his revelations about her drug use and affair they had together in his book. It was sort of an end (of a chapter) for Fleetwood Mac. The future of the band was really uncertain.

Really? From everything I read, she never really said she was mad about that. When she got asked if she read it she said like, I would have gone through it with a red pen. She even said at one point she's glad he mentioned their affair because it was a great love.

Macfan4life · #14 03-31-2017, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

Really? From everything I read, she never really said she was mad about that. When she got asked if she read it she said like, I would have gone through it with a red pen. She even said at one point she's glad he mentioned their affair because it was a great love.

She was furious when he said he was writing a book and she demanded to know what was in it. Mick refused to let her know but things got nasty when their relationship was outed by the book. She publically threatened legal action against him. She calmed down some after it was released. Mick revealed many things about Stevie in his first book. She likes to edit her history lots of times like her current Betty ford stories compared to what really happened.