Relocated: London, Christine, Lindsey, FM

[getTusked]

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

Yep, he's a naturally charismatic, and ridiculously gifted performer. I was at that show too, and he was fantastic, as always. Someone needs to bring the energy, and we can always count on Lindsey for that.




I don't think so either. Lindsey has the most responsibility and puts the most work put into the tour. He's the only one on stage the whole show. He works his a** off and has a right to feel a little territorial, if in fact he does...which we don't really know for sure. I don't actually believe for a second that he was outright against her joining them, but maybe it wasn't his preference. I have no idea. Either way, he's entitled to his opinion and I wouldn't blame him if he had reservations about it.



It's not just you. I hate these threads, and how they all keep going around and around...and around Stevie, Mick, Lindsey...they all say a lot of stuff, and if we, as fans, don't know to take it all with a big chunk of salt by now, then...I don't know.

Amen! On all counts...especially the grain of salt comment.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Wendy Welch

I also heard John had to be helped onto the stage in Europe, which is very sad to me. Is there any update on John's condition? Please pray for him. We all love John.

i can only speak for the first Amsterdam show, since that's the only show where i was sitting on the side, so could see backstage and band members coming and going onto and off the stage.

there, John was not helped to or off the stage any more than other band members (including Neale, Brett, etc). they were all escorted onto the stage one by one, each held by the hand by a member of the staff, i guess so they don't trip in the dark. you could see Mick, John, Stevie, Lindsey and others being each escorted up separately. when they were up on the stage about to come out they were let go and assumed the formation we all normally see - Mick coming out first, Stevie and Lindsey holding hands, etc. so John didn't seem to be treated any different than others, at that show in Europe i saw.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by FierySequences

OMG...so I have come out of (posting) retirement just to say this: Yes Espy! I had the privledge to work with Lou Lerma of the Amps for about 9 monthes last year. He is doing well with Elle and they have their own band Team Void (which you prolly know about).

That's awesome! Luis and Elle rawk, and your post made me want to get my Luche Libre mask on!!'

[David]

Originally Posted by getTusked

I think it would have been great to see Christine for a couple more songs...but I feel like I get where LB is coming from too.

Not me. I really don't understand his position. The whole show—the whole tour—is just a splashy variety show. It's not promoting anything per se, other than Fleetwood Mac nostalgia (which is fine because it's big bucks these days in the live arena). What would it matter aesthetically whether Christine was onstage for five minutes or fifty-five minutes? I have to conclude that there's some personal rancor between Lindsey and Christine—maybe she said something to him in 1998 that really got under his skin—and time and distance have not softened it.

There may also be some financial or strategic reasons that are sticking in his craw. Didn't he invest personal money into Say You Will? It's hard to believe that anything any configuration of Fleetwood Mac does on album at this time is going to sell more than several hundred thousand. Maybe Lindsey doesn't want to divide a tiny take five ways. Maybe he doesn't want to pay for an unofficial member to come and go.

But I think the underlying cause for his statements is still largely personal. Maybe he wants Stevie to enjoy working with him again, irrespective of Christine's involvement. Imagine if you were Lindsey, and Stevie told you she'd do an album only if Christine were back in. There's an emotional brutality there if you're the one in the conversation. Hasn't he been saying for fifteen years that the two Americans need to find their way back to each other emotionally and to recover their musical potential? It would hurt if one of them kept saying she's not interested unless So-and-So returns.

Another cause of resentment might be that a big label has told Fleetwood Mac "No album on THIS label unless you five regroup."

When all these conditions are put on your future musical work and you're Lindsey Buckingham, you're not going to be a happy camper, is my guess.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Not me. I really don't understand his position. The whole show—the whole tour—is just a splashy variety show. It's not promoting anything per se, other than Fleetwood Mac nostalgia (which is fine because it's big bucks these days in the live arena). What would it matter aesthetically whether Christine was onstage for five minutes or fifty-five minutes?

I agree with this small part of your post, although I'm not sure that FM sees the set this way.

Even so, Christine performing didn't have to change the precious setlist. She could just play on the songs that she knows and has played on 1000 times before, most especially World Turning, but Second Hand News, The Chain, etc. as well.

I would make the argument that her sitting there for most of the set like a yeoman would have created LESS of a disruptive media splash than her coming out to one song, Don't Stop, with great star fan fare did. Just come out there like one of the guys and the media would note that is what she did, but wouldn't harp on it.

With Lindsey in 1990, he just appeared very subtly behind Stevie for Landslide. She didn't say who he was. She just said something like, "need I say more?" He wasn't announced until MUCH later in the show. They could have done that with Christine and I think most people in the audience wouldn't even realize that she hadn't been part of the regular band for 15 years.

Michele

[Ulpian]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I agree with this small part of your post, although I'm not sure that FM sees the set this way.

Even so, Christine performing didn't have to change the precious setlist. She could just play on the songs that she knows and has played on 1000 times before, most especially World Turning, but Second Hand News, The Chain, etc. as well.

I would make the argument that her sitting there for most of the set like a yeoman would have created LESS of a disruptive media splash than her coming out to one song, Don't Stop, with great star fan fare did. Just come out there like one of the guys and the media would note that is what she did, but wouldn't harp on it.

With Lindsey in 1990, he just appeared very subtly behind Stevie for Landslide. She didn't say who he was. She just said something like, "need I say more?" He wasn't announced until MUCH later in the show. They could have done that with Christine and I think most people in the audience wouldn't even realize that she hadn't been part of the regular band for 15 years.

Michele

I agree with this. I thought that there would have been no harm for her at the very least, to have come on for Go Your Own Way, then to have done World Turning and Don't Stop.

Whilst I was beyond delighted to have seen Christine perform with FM, I too find it frustrating that she was only given a one-song slot.

The other stuff which has been brought up in the light of Stevie's Mojo interview is ambiguous. I always thought that there was more to Christine's departure, or what happened shortly before and in its wake, than we know. I cannot fathom why Lindsey would not want her on the cover of a magazine covering the making of an album to which she contributed so much. I will inevitably shot down by his fans, but that request seems to me the product of pettiness and a complete failure to see the bigger picture.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Ulpian

I cannot fathom why Lindsey would not want her on the cover of a magazine covering the making of an album to which she contributed so much.

He wasn't on the cover either and he contributed so much, certainly.

Michele

[Ulpian]

Originally Posted by michelej1

He wasn't on the cover either and he contributed so much, certainly.

Michele

True, but you take my point? My reading of the Mojo journalist's comment was that Lindsey didn't want Christine on the front; presumably if there'd even something with the current lineup on there, he would have been happy. If I've misread it, let me know.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Ulpian

True, but you take my point? My reading of the Mojo journalist's comment was that Lindsey didn't want Christine on the front; presumably if there'd even something with the current lineup on there, he would have been happy. If I've misread it, let me know.

No, I don't take your point. I don't see that the magazine cover was an attempt to minimize Christine's contributions to Rumours, since he wasn't on the Mojo cover either and I assume he thinks he contributed.

Did Mojo have several options and Lindsey just said, "use this outtake from the album, not that one?" Did he actually tell the guy he didn't want to use a line up photo in general, rather than saying, "I don't want to use a photo with Christine in it." Since he wasn't on the cover either, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the latter scenario occurred.

There are plenty of pictures of the current line up that could have been used, but they didn't make the cover of Mojo either. So, if the choice was the line up of the 5 and the Rumours album cover which only contained 2 members and did not include Christine or Lindsey it's hard for me to take any point from that in particular.


If Lindsey said, "Use any picture just as long as Christine isn't in it," that would have been interesting, indeed. But the writer doesn't say that's what happened. He doesn't say much of anything.

Did Lindsey say, "use this picture, because Christine isn't in it" that is provocative enough that the writer would have certainly mentioned it in the original MOJO interview (right after he said in that article that Lindsey still seemed upset about Christine leaving, it would have fit perfectly there and helped to make his point, but wasn't included in the piece at all).


As for the ballet cover with Mick and Stevie, it's not what I wanted to see on the cover of Mojo, that's for sure, but it doesn't seem like a slight against Christine. If Lindsey had been on the cover and not Christine, then yes, I might agree with you and the writer. As the cover actually played out, without Lindsey on it, I don't see that as being anything against Christine.

I didn't like Mojo's cover choice, but I didn't see it as excluding only Christine. I thought it excluded three of them.

Michele

[michelej1]

And for related reasons, I had a much bigger problem with Stevie and Lindsey doing Landslide and Big Love on Letterman and for the RRHOF to promote the entire band. Now, to me, that did exclude Christine. Whether she wanted it that way or not, it didn't sit well with me.

The Mojo magazine cover is not an example of that.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

I guess it's not totally clear, and any one of several scenarios may have played out, but I think what was written--"Lindsey seems almost cross about Christine’s return. He said she’d “burned her bridges”, and asked MOJO not to use a line-up shot including Christine on the cover of our issue about the making of Rumours"--will certainly imply a lot to many readers. I think Ulpian's main point was that if Lindsey had said nothing, he may very well have been on the cover himself. The writer doesn't make it sound like the cover shot was the magazine's first choice, but maybe it was.

[Ulpian]

Originally Posted by michelej1

No, I don't take your point. I don't see that the magazine cover was an attempt to minimize Christine's contributions to Rumours, since he wasn't on the Mojo cover either and I assume he thinks he contributed.

Did Mojo have several options and Lindsey just said, "use this outtake from the album, not that one?" Did he actually tell the guy he didn't want to use a line up photo in general, rather than saying, "I don't want to use a photo with Christine in it." Since he wasn't on the cover either, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the latter scenario occurred.

There are plenty of pictures of the current line up that could have been used, but they didn't make the cover of Mojo either. So, if the choice was the line up of the 5 and the Rumours album cover which only contained 2 members and did not include Christine or Lindsey it's hard for me to take any point from that in particular.


If Lindsey said, "Use any picture just as long as Christine isn't in it," that would have been interesting, indeed. But the writer doesn't say that's what happened. He doesn't say much of anything.

Did Lindsey say, "use this picture, because Christine isn't in it" that is provocative enough that the writer would have certainly mentioned it in the original MOJO interview (right after he said in that article that Lindsey still seemed upset about Christine leaving, it would have fit perfectly there and helped to make his point, but wasn't included in the piece at all).


As for the ballet cover with Mick and Stevie, it's not what I wanted to see on the cover of Mojo, that's for sure, but it doesn't seem like a slight against Christine. If Lindsey had been on the cover and not Christine, then yes, I might agree with you and the writer. As the cover actually played out, without Lindsey on it, I don't see that as being anything against Christine.

I didn't like Mojo's cover choice, but I didn't see it as excluding only Christine. I thought it excluded three of them.

Michele

You have applied your usual forensic approach, Michele, but I don't really think you and I read the Mojo journalist's piece the same way. No matter.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

I guess it's not totally clear, and any one of several scenarios may have played out, but I think what was written--"Lindsey seems almost cross about Christine’s return. He said she’d “burned her bridges”, and asked MOJO not to use a line-up shot including Christine on the cover of our issue about the making of Rumours"--will certainly imply a lot to many readers.

Yep, I just don't know if those implications are correct. Did Lindsey say, "don't use a line-up shot that includes Christine." Or did he say "don't use that line up shot" and the line up shot that they showed him included Christine. I know the question to Stevie implies that Lindsey said he didn't want Christine on the cover of the magazine, but I question the accuracy of that conclusion.

One reason I think Lindsey might not have said that is because when the Mojo issue in question came out, I think that juicy tidbit would certainly have been mentioned in the article itself, the Fleetwood Mac article with the inflammatory cover, not 9 months later in an SN interview. I think it would have been mentioned earlier because that original article does pointedly mention Lindsey's vehement (and dreaded) "burned her bridges" line and I think Mojo wanted to delve into the Christine question then, but didn't have a lot to go on other than the burned bridges.

What it looks like to me happened is that the writer asked Stevie how the reunion went. Stevie was all, gee it was great that Christine came and sang one song, but it could have been more than one song if Lindsey had let her. Learning from Stevie that Lindsey supposedly didn't want Christine to perform on more than one song, the writer sensed conflict between the band members and wanted to explore that for a scoop, so to get Stevie to elaborate on a fissure between Lindsey and Christine, the writer returns to the "burned her bridges" line and ADDS that Lindsey didn't want them to use a line up shot that included Christine, a piece of information that was missing from the original Mojo article. He doesn't say that Lindsey didn't want to use the photo because it included Christine.

Parsing words? I don't think so, not when you consider the context. This would have been an important point to make, if true.

Since the original Mojo article never suggested that Lindsey didn't want Christine on the cover and since Lindsey doesn't appear on the cover himself, I just don't conclude that Lindsey said not to use the line up photo, for the reason that it contained Christine. Who knows why he didn't want it to be used. If he wanted to exclude Christine, I think he would have pushed for a picture of just the four of them. If he did, Mojo might have refused his suggestion, but I 100% believe they would have said they refused such a request. They don't. So, I don't think any such request was made.

If there was any indication that Lindsey wanted to erase Christine from FM history, revealing that he said, "here I really want you to use this picture of the four of us, instead of the picture of five" would have been most relevant. The writer doesn't say Lindsey said such a thing and I find the omission instructive. It certainly informs my interpretation of events.

Yes, I know that other people don't read it that way. I'm sure that was the writer's intent.

Michele

[BlueDenimLamp]

I think this may apply...
"No one knows how I feel...What I say unless you read between my lines"
~Stevie Nicks~

[Lindsfan]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yep, I just don't know if those implications are correct. Did Lindsey say, "don't use a line-up shot that includes Christine." Or did he say "don't use that line up shot" and the line up shot that they showed him included Christine. I know the question to Stevie implies that Lindsey said he didn't want Christine on the cover of the magazine, but I question the accuracy of that conclusion.

One reason I think Lindsey might not have said that is because when the Mojo issue in question came out, I think that juicy tidbit would certainly have been mentioned in the article itself, the Fleetwood Mac article with the inflammatory cover, not 9 months later in an SN interview. I think it would have been mentioned earlier because that original article does pointedly mention Lindsey's vehement (and dreaded) "burned her bridges" line and I think Mojo wanted to delve into the Christine question then, but didn't have a lot to go on other than the burned bridges.

What it looks like to me happened is that the writer asked Stevie how the reunion went. Stevie was all, gee it was great that Christine came and sang one song, but it could have been more than one song if Lindsey had let her. Learning from Stevie that Lindsey supposedly didn't want Christine to perform on more than one song, the writer sensed conflict between the band members and wanted to explore that for a scoop, so to get Stevie to elaborate on a fissure between Lindsey and Christine, the writer returns to the "burned her bridges" line and ADDS that Lindsey didn't want them to use a line up shot that included Christine, a piece of information that was missing from the original Mojo article. He doesn't say that Lindsey didn't want to use the photo because it included Christine.

Parsing words? I don't think so, not when you consider the context. This would have been an important point to make, if true.

Since the original Mojo article never suggested that Lindsey didn't want Christine on the cover and since Lindsey doesn't appear on the cover himself, I just don't conclude that Lindsey said not to use the line up photo, for the reason that it contained Christine. Who knows why he didn't want it to be used. If he wanted to exclude Christine, I think he would have pushed for a picture of just the four of them. If he did, Mojo might have refused his suggestion, but I 100% believe they would have said they refused such a request. They don't. So, I don't think any such request was made.

If there was any indication that Lindsey wanted to erase Christine from FM history, revealing that he said, "here I really want you to use this picture of the four of us, instead of the picture of five" would have been most relevant. The writer doesn't say Lindsey said such a thing and I find the omission instructive. It certainly informs my interpretation of events.

Yes, I know that other people don't read it that way. I'm sure that was the writer's intent.

Michele

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

I think this may apply...
"No one knows how I feel...What I say unless you read between my lines"
~Stevie Nicks~

And of course:

"You know you should never believe what you read"
~Lindsey Buckingham