Tusk - looking back 25 years later

[Cammie]

Lindsey Never... took The Credit where it
was not DUE!!! Christine and Lindsey were
Musical Soulmates!He could play guitar around
her piano and altho' he wasn't a professional
musician as Christine was...they liked to work
to-gether!!! Stevie did chose to be the twirling
dervish/ look at me/ center stage Star! She
definitely did succeed! Christine is gone and
only the "boys" remain who she knows how to
manipulate! She said something like: I Listen to
the ppl in charge...then DO MY OWN thing!
That sounds like The SYW cd to me!!! The three
part harmony and Chris's elegance are missed!
SYW sounds flat and contrived!Give us TUSK!!!

IOHO: Agreement with David and CarneVaca &
shakin' up...if your a Musician you "Get IT!"!!!
We won't scream at you if you return the FAVOUR!Sky

[CarneVaca]

A few words about Christine:

I unfairly dismissed her Tusk songs as "yawners." I didn't mean all her songs in the album are that, but I see it came across that way. "Think About Me" and "Over and Over" are pretty good tunes. "Honey Hi" and "Never Forget" are really catchy folk numbers. I like "Brown Eyes" well enough but I have to be in the right mood for it. "Never Make Me Cry" is just plain dull to me. Sometimes I get "Never Make Me Cry" and "Brown Eyes" confused.

"Never Forget" has what I consider Christine's best lines ever: "What a wonderful night to be/The stars must be my friends to shine for me," which unfortunately are counterbalanced by the "cold/gold" lines. Still, there's an easy optimism in that song and "Honey Hi" that I find irrepressibly attractive. In general, Christine's songs in Tusk have an understated quality that now strike me as somewhat dull, now comforting. It really depends on my mood.

Before Tusk she had some real gems, including "Over My Head," probably my favorite song by her, and "Don't Stop," "Songbird" and "You Make Loving Fun." Before the Lindsey/Christine era, a lot of her songs feel like to me they are missing something, with a couple of exceptions, including "Why." What that something is may have to do with Lindsey's production, but I'm not sure. Maybe she just hadn't come into her own as a songwriter back then.

Christine doesn't inspire me all that much. A handful of her songs are excellent, but for the most part they strike me as OK or less. Her contributions to "Tango," however, were pretty damn good.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by shackin'up
man those fins write fast....

And they keep going, and going, and going, and going...and, going...and going........and going....

[chiliD]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Before the Lindsey/Christine era, a lot of her songs feel like to me they are missing something, with a couple of exceptions, including "Why." What that something is may have to do with Lindsey's production, but I'm not sure. Maybe she just hadn't come into her own as a songwriter back then.

I don't think it really is a "production" issue. One of the things that Christine herself mentioned about her songs is that she used to sing in her lower vocal register. If you listen to her older songs ("Homeward Bound" & "Morning Rain" especially) she's singing really low. Around the Penguin album, she starts singing a bit higher, but it isn't until "Over My Head" & "Say You Love Me" until she starts using that upper register of her voice...and by Tango she's pretty much lost that lower register altogether. Although, that probably came due to Lindsey's influence...but, the trend had already started BEFORE Lindsey joined.

[Cristian]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I unfairly dismissed her Tusk songs as "yawners."

And I was about to kick your butt because of that!!!

Anyway it's good that you come to those conclusions after an analysis and don't just throw the conclusions to the table before even remembering what those tunes sound like. In matters of tastes we can all have some differences, but there are some points in which we can't lose objectivity.


Song of the moment - The Ledge

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by chiliD
I don't think it really is a "production" issue. One of the things that Christine herself mentioned about her songs is that she used to sing in her lower vocal register. If you listen to her older songs ("Homeward Bound" & "Morning Rain" especially) she's singing really low. Around the Penguin album, she starts singing a bit higher, but it isn't until "Over My Head" & "Say You Love Me" until she starts using that upper register of her voice...and by Tango she's pretty much lost that lower register altogether. Although, that probably came due to Lindsey's influence...but, the trend had already started BEFORE Lindsey joined.

Interesting observation, Chili. Now I will listen to those songs and see if that is what I subconsciously detected.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Cristian
And I was about to kick your butt because of that!!!

I figured you would certainly appreciate my clarification.

[Cristian]

Originally posted by chiliD
I don't think it really is a "production" issue. One of the things that Christine herself mentioned about her songs is that she used to sing in her lower vocal register.

Good point! "Morning Rain" is a great example of that way of singing. Perhaps for that very same reason, and although featuring fantastic lyrics, "Homeward Bound" must be her worst recorded vocal... even though it's kind of attractive because of that too!

You can easily notice the difference between those songs, and, say "Remember Me" from Penguin. I had never thought that it was just a register problem. I would, like Carne, have given credit to the production. But you made a great observation.


Song of the moment - The Ledge

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Cammie
Stevie did chose to be the twirling
dervish/ look at me/ center stage Star! She
definitely did succeed! Christine is gone and
only the "boys" remain who she knows how to
manipulate! She said something like: I Listen to
the ppl in charge...then DO YOUR OWN thing!
That sounds like The SYW cd to me!!! The three
part harmony and Chris's elegance are missed!
SYW sounds flat and contrived!Give us TUSK!!!

Hmm... I don't think Stevie in any way "manipulates" Lindsey, Mick & John, to get her way.
That line of thinking isn't at all fair to "the boys," who definitely have minds of their own.

And is there really anything wrong with listening to the "powers that be," and then doing your own thing anyway?
After all, Lindsey's been doing that very thing for decades.

Both Lindsey & Stevie are very strong personalities, and they're both extremely individualistic... and that's one of the most fascinating qualities about them as people.

(By the way, that particular comment was actually made by Stevie in regards to how she handles her solo career, not about Fleetwood Mac.)

I still say that, despite some of the songs being recorded six years apart, 'Say You Will' is remarkably cohesive, and covers several styles and approaches very ably and skillfully.
To me, it sounds like the culmination of all of the albums that preceded it.

[Johnny Stew]

As much as I love the album version of "Why," I have to say that I was pretty blown away the first time I ever heard a live recording of the band doing it after Lindsey & Stevie joined.

It was a minor change... extending the coda as a showcase for their three-part harmonies... but, for me at least, it made all the difference in the world.

If there were one pre-1975 Mac song that I would have wanted them to re-record with Lindsey & Stevie, it would easily be "Why."

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
As much as I love the album version of "Why," I have to say that I was pretty blown away the first time I ever heard a live recording of the band doing it after Lindsey & Stevie joined.

It was a minor change... extending the coda as a showcase for their three-part harmonies... but, for me at least, it made all the difference in the world.

If there were one pre-1975 Mac song that I would have wanted them to re-record with Lindsey & Stevie, it would easily be "Why."

Oh yes, agreed. Cause it's the best thing she's ever written...imo

[shackin'up]

Originally posted by CarneVaca

Christine doesn't inspire me all that much. A handful of her songs are excellent, but for the most part they strike me as OK or less. Her contributions to "Tango," however, were pretty damn good.

Oh i don't care for her contributions to tango! except isnt it midnight.

But- talking about tusk- she adds so much atmosphere and warmth to the album. I think it is great that she was not going for another dont stop or say you love me. these songs have more spirituality to them and are a great contrast to lindsey's songs. The darkness of the album was definately anchored by her, too.

For me, there are no weak points in tusk. maybe some weaker songs, but they have function towards the songs before and after. This is an album and not only a collection of songs, more than on any other popalbum.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by trackaghost
Yep, I agree. I do think Tusk is Lindsey's masterpiece for sure, but let's give the girls some credit please! They were all at the height of their powers on that record. If Stevie and Chris hadn't contributed such great songs (along with Lindsey's) the record may not be the classic it is now.

I had an old piano demo of "Sara" where the melody, chord structure, etc. are exactly the same. The same for "Storms." So, I think yes, the structure of the songs and the words are all from Stevie. I think where LB shines is the final majesty of Sara, which for me is in the subtle rolling guitar at the end right before the "all I ever wanted was to know . . . . " line. So, that song to me is a prime example of Stevie giving LB something great and he then turns it into a masterpeice. Interestingly, I think he runied SOTM - the piano demo was haunting and clever. IMO his, and we assume it is his, rocking version leaves me flat on the record. Live however is another beast altogether

[David]

Originally posted by trackaghost
Yep, I agree. I do think Tusk is Lindsey's masterpiece for sure, but let's give the girls some credit please! They were all at the height of their powers on that record. If Stevie and Chris hadn't contributed such great songs (along with Lindsey's) the record may not be the classic it is now.

I think that in the case of both Christine & Stevie, it's more than a simple case of bringing in a song:

• Stevie also contributes her lead & harmony vocal style (a single "ooh" or "aah" from her goes further in creating a mood or igniting excitement than whole stanzas sung by most other singers.
  
• Christine also contributes her savvy little rhythmic piano parts (try listening to "Brown Eyes" without the Fender Rhodes, or "Angel" without the CP30).
  
• Mick & John contribute their "feel" style of rhythm ("What Makes You Think You're the One" would be a lot less intense & singular without Mick's unique pounding attack).

All these Fleetwood Mac tracks would sound different (less interesting, to my ears) without these contributions to the sonic overall, regardless of which producer or band member was engineering & establishing track direction & tone.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by David

• Mick & John contribute their "feel" style of rhythm ("What Makes You Think You're the One" would be a lot less intense & singular without Mick's unique pounding attack).

Are you sure that Mick is playing on "WMYTYTO"?? I always thought that was Lindsey's banging away on tincans or kleenex boxes or something. The sound is just TOO "un-Mick".