The doc!!!

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
My sense is that she was digging her heels stubbornly because she didn't want to concede to her former lover.

Lindsey was right to point out the flaw but he was wrong in the solution. The better solution would have been to turn the whole song into first and second person. As for the verb tense, "fell for her" and "now you're going home," actually makes sense to me because it shows a time continuum.

You're right, but perhaps Lindsey suggested the third person solution to refocus the song into generalities, and away from the blatant personal implications of a first person song written to her former lover.

"Maybe now you could prove to me, that you would be good for me - that we should be together." Awkward for Lindsey, eh? lol so the begging for forgiveness, the pleading for reunion, is given to the third person, and the goodbyes are in the form of direct addresses.

Of course, third person also eliminates the problematic "you" signifier shift, from "You" - Lindsey to "You" - herself.

"Now you're going home.... you can sit outside his door and wait"
Ahhh, Stevie! lol

Poetic license.

[CarneVaca]

I see your point, Nancy. Do you think of someone else, not Lindsey, had made the suggestion that she might have reconsidered?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I see your point, Nancy. Do you think of someone else, not Lindsey, had made the suggestion that she might have reconsidered?

Well, I'm not Nancy (for which I'm sure she's thanking her lucky stars! *lol*), but I think that's a very good possibility, Carne... still, it's hard to say.

Obviously she's changed lyrics here and there, from the demos to the finished versions.
Some good examples of that, would be "you never showed me about the fire," turning into "you never told me about the fire," in "Sara," or "pick up the pieces and move on," becoming "pick up the pieces and go home," in "Gold Dust Woman," or a far more recent example... "it occurs to me that destiny rules," becoming "it appears to me that destiny rules."

But then, those are all relatively minor changes, and could also merely be examples of studio ad-libs, and not pre-meditated lyrical changes.

My feeling is that, if Stevie herself decides to change something, it's one thing... but if Lindsey tells her "this might sound better if...," then it might not be greeted with a lot of enthusiasm.

As a side note: I know that she was disappointed when John Shanks wanted to remove several of the verses from "Fall From Grace," because he felt the song was too long... but then they ended up compromising on it, and just removed some of the lines.
So obviously she is willing to make some changes for the betterment of a song (even if she initially balks at the idea), but maybe it's a case of choosing your battles, and deciding what material is worth fighting to keep, and what can be compromised on.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I see your point, Nancy. Do you think of someone else, not Lindsey, had made the suggestion that she might have reconsidered?

Hmmmm......

It doesn't seem likely that Stevie would change for anyone, lol, but her vehement "I'm talking to YOU" implies that she was NOT going to allow him to shift it away from himself, and that's decidedly personal..... I could go either way on that one. Let's just say the fact that it was Lindsey couldn't have helped, lol.

But Stevie likes to put Lindsey in his place regarding her lyrics! lol She has to assert herself somewhere. Lindsey is in control of so many other things. I've always thought that Stevie, feeling inadequate musically as the only one who didn't play an instrument, fell back on her "poetry" as her untouchable domain. Lindsey apparently agrees, because he also has said Stevie's writing is her strong suit and not his. I would argue that is not always the case.... but that's another topic.

[CarneVaca]

Yet, she did change a whole verse in Thrown Down, from the WOS version to the album cut. What happened?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Yet, she did change a whole verse in Thrown Down, from the WOS version to the album cut. What happened?

Very good question.

My guess is that she was inspired to write another verse either out of a desire to update the story in the song, or possibly because she felt the song needed something more in order to be complete.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by joe



I think the pic that you guys are referring to as "Waddy" is NOT Waddy after all. I noticed that pic too. I'm almost positive that it is in fact a B/N concert pic of Stevie and Lindsey. I won't be able to post it cause i don't have it but i've see it around. Stevie had long straight hair parted in the middle, and is at her mic which is close to Lindsey.

It also makes sense that she would have this pic next to her. Why would she have a pic of Waddy and her? I mean it's possible but not logical.

Def looks like Waddy to me! Look at the screen shots at buckinghamnicks.net. No way is that LB's hair!

Pip

[wondergirl9847]

Buck's hair goes UP....Waddy's goes DOWN.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Def looks like Waddy to me! Look at the screen shots at buckinghamnicks.net. No way is that LB's hair!

Pip

Lindsey live, back in the days of BN (prepare to be unimpressed. He had not yet reached his full sexy hair potential).

http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/bn/images/SnLBTWRS3.jpg

http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/bn/im...ksConcert1.jpg

Compare to the photo in question:

http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/sn/images/SNicksDR07.JPG

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
My guess is that she was inspired to write another verse either out of a desire to update the story in the song, or possibly because she felt the song needed something more in order to be complete.

I agree. Probably came up with this verse in Phoenix along with her "Phoenix four." Lindsey, on the other hand, did not feel the need to write anything specifically for the Fleetwood Mac project, relying on material that was a few years old (in the case of "Say Goodbye", 15 years old). He also seems to have developed a fondness for covers - "Love Minus Zero/No Limit", "I Am Waiting", "Try for the Sun", to name a few. I do realize he probably did not intend to release the rest of his Stone covers; that would be ridiculous. Still, it's interesting he developed them so fully in "demo" form, and we know "I Am Waiting" at least was worked on for SYW. In addition, he has taken to using co-writers in songs like "What's the World Coming To" and "Come". I'm very glad to hear his songs and love them, but in the past some have criticized Stevie for raiding the vaults, doing covers, and using cowriters, and it's interesting to see it in Lindsey.

Sheesh, I am a busy little poster today, aren't I? But it's spring break, lol.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Compare the line "Now you're going home" to "Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin," and tell me which one is poetry.

Stevie has written some wonderful poetic lines, but for her to defend "Now you're going home" as beautiful poetry makes me question if she understands what poetry is. My sense is that she was digging her heels stubbornly because she didn't want to concede to her former lover.

Lindsey was right to point out the flaw but he was wrong in the solution. The better solution would have been to turn the whole song into first and second person. As for the verb tense, "fell for her" and "now you're going home," actually makes sense to me because it shows a time continuum.

"Digging her heels in stubbornly because she didnt want to concede to her former lover" ? oh please. this is one line , . for God sakes. look i think stevie realizes just what a poet is. the line of n ow youre going home was a line that lindsey picked out, when stevie said its the poet that i am, thats how I Write, she was stating this is how i feel the song and it sounds beautiful,, you have to admit the flow of the song goes better the way stevie wrote it. as far as not wanting to concede to her former lover, is crap, she listened to him and just disagreed and let him state his thoughts and then afterwards said ok. meaning its ok. they didnt argue. and if you watch the doc. again when they were discussing mixin the songs, it was stevie who agreed after they met both men to go with lindseys guy to mix the songs. i dont know why or how you see her as being stubborn. the fact that she didnt want to change her lines is her right. and as far as quoting other poets, when you read half their words, half of it doesnt make sense in english, now i know you will say that im not an english professor like you or that im not smart enough to understand it, but stop reading everything like its a paper that you are grading. what you like others may not and vice versa, you say tomato i say ...... etc... blah blah blah can we let this go now, thank you yawn

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I see your point, Nancy. Do you think of someone else, not Lindsey, had made the suggestion that she might have reconsidered?

it wouldnt make a difference who asked her to change it , if she feels strongly about something she wants to keep it that way, remember when talking to mick she said i love my songs and all the words, stevie then says i admit that, then she went on to say if my words come back to me and it doesnt make me feel the way it made me feel when i was writing about it at the piano by myself,then i dont care abou t the song anymore,,,also why are you calling her stubborn, its not like any of her songs have never been changed in fleetwood mac. look at it this way... this is a song, telling a story, just because you know it was written by her about lindsey look at it as a woman telling a story about anyone , stop hounding on the he's, she's her's its and buts. if this clip was never viewed, none of you would of ever even brought these lyrics up on your own. and please don t say that you would of because this cd has been out far too long without anyone mentioning it.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by sodascouts
I'm very glad to hear his songs and love them, but in the past some have criticized Stevie for raiding the vaults, doing covers, and using cowriters, and it's interesting to see it in Lindsey.

Very different situation though, Nancy. Lindsey used the songs he'd been trying to release for years. He didn't just go in the vaults looking for stuff.

Furthermore, he's always done covers, going back to the white album days.

You know, it would be cool if he put all his Stones songs together with some of the other covers and released a coves album.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by teedee
you have to admit the flow of the song goes better the way stevie wrote it.

I don't admit that at all. I've always criticized this song, even though I like it. I've always said it should have been in the first and second persons. And though that's not quite what Lindsey was suggesting, he was thinking along the same lines.

as far as not wanting to concede to her former lover, is crap,

How do you know it's crap. She called you to tell you?

i dont know why or how you see her as being stubborn.

Well don't worry about it. I've never known anyone who starts a sentence with "I don't know how you" was ever really open to what the other person had to say, so let's just leave at that and move on. The world will keep on turning.

when you read half their words, half of it doesnt make sense in english, now i know you will say that im not an english professor like you or that im not smart enough to understand it, but stop reading everything like its a paper that you are grading. what you like others may not and vice

Boy, you sure have a lot of opinions, don't you? Opinions are better when they're not based on assumptions. I'm not a college professor nor do you know what I am going to say, so stop acting like you can predict my moves. If half the words of whatever poets you're thinking don't make sense "in English," can you extend them the same courtesy that you do Stevie when you say she can just justify herself with, "That's how I Write?" And yes, if you don't think the poetry makes sense, most likely it's because you're not getting. Don't worry, a lot of people don't.

[CarneVaca]

It's true what they say: The eye sees what it wants to see.

also why are you calling her stubborn,

That's simple: Because I think she's stubborn.

look at it this way... this is a song, telling a story, just because you know it was written by her about lindsey look at it as a woman telling a story about anyone , stop hounding on the he's, she's her's its and buts.

What!? Do you want to rephrase that in a way that makes sense so I can answer it?

if this clip was never viewed, none of you would of ever even brought these lyrics up on your own. and please don t say that you would of because this cd has been out far too long without anyone mentioning it.

There you go again telling me what I'm going to say. You must have psychic powers.