'75 Fleetwood Mac - Analyze Your Least Favorites

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

The bit about her proper place being in a pub band was harsh, as I've conceded. But I really would urge all Ledgies to spend a little time reading the archives on this board, because it's easy to build up an image of someone that is quite at variance with most things they've ever said or done in public.

I don't think Christine's interviews are exactly at variance with the public's perception of her. If anything, I might think of her as being at variance with herself. Meaning she sometimes describes her role as one thing, when in reality it was quite a lot more.

I don't know if it was an article or an essay someone wrote, but I recall reading a discussion of the passive, pliant, needy nature of Christine's song lyrics. Oh, think about me, every once in a while, type pleas. I'll be here waiting. And of course, many of her songs do have that element. Even Lindsey said that he thought Christine's influence made Stevie's music less agressive and masculine than it had been before, which I found an odd observation. In fact, I might argue that he made Christine more feminine sometimes (i.e. Hold Me).

At any rate, my reaction to that article about the docile nature of Christine's song lyrics was to think, well that's fine but look at her life. She got to where she was on strength, skill and talent and I don't think she played second fiddle to anyone in that band, man or woman. She might have been a doormat in her love life and maybe her lyrics reflected that, but in her professional life she was not at all subservient. For me her songs didn't have to make a statement, because the life she led as a musician and songwriter, spoke for her. She didn't have to talk about equality, because she exemplified it.

And many of the things I know about her, aren't something I've heard her discuss in interviews. She doesn't talk about how she pretty much led rehearsals for the group. Kept things on track. I hear her do that on demos. If I listened to her in interviews, I would think she just sat back in a corner being a quiet part of the rhythm section and that wasn't the case. Before joining FM, I don't think she was just sitting at home waiting for John to return from the road and give her a sense of completion either. I think what she said and did were sometimes two different things, and one doesn't necessarily contradict the other, it just provides a fuller picture.

Michele

[ButterCookie]

Thankyou for posting that, Michele I wanted to say something similar but just couldn't form the words without getting wound up.

[MacShadowsBall]

Don't forget to PM me your predictions. I've only received 2 so far!

Least Favorite White album Christine
Least Favorite White album Lindsey
Least Favorite White album Stevie
Least Favorite Song from the white album

Deadline is Thursday @ noon (central US time)

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think Christine's interviews are exactly at variance with the public's perception of her. If anything, I might think of her as being at variance with herself. Meaning she sometimes describes her role as one thing, when in reality it was quite a lot more.

I don't know if it was an article or an essay someone wrote, but I recall reading a discussion of the passive, pliant, needy nature of Christine's song lyrics. Oh, think about me, every once in a while, type pleas. I'll be here waiting. And of course, many of her songs do have that element. Even Lindsey said that he thought Christine's influence made Stevie's music less agressive and masculine than it had been before, which I found an odd observation. In fact, I might argue that he made Christine more feminine sometimes (i.e. Hold Me).

At any rate, my reaction to that article about the docile nature of Christine's song lyrics was to think, well that's fine but look at her life. She got to where she was on strength, skill and talent and I don't think she played second fiddle to anyone in that band, man or woman. She might have been a doormat in her love life and maybe her lyrics reflected that, but in her professional life she was not at all subservient. For me her songs didn't have to make a statement, because the life she led as a musician and songwriter, spoke for her. She didn't have to talk about equality, because she exemplified it.

And many of the things I know about her, aren't something I've heard her discuss in interviews. She doesn't talk about how she pretty much led rehearsals for the group. Kept things on track. I hear her do that on demos. If I listened to her in interviews, I would think she just sat back in a corner being a quiet part of the rhythm section and that wasn't the case. Before joining FM, I don't think she was just sitting at home waiting for John to return from the road and give her a sense of completion either. I think what she said and did were sometimes two different things, and one doesn't necessarily contradict the other, it just provides a fuller picture.

Michele

Christgau might be the (original) source for the Stevie-Christine dichotomy in his review of Rumours:

[T]he cute-voiced woman writes and sings the tough lyrics and the husky-voiced woman the vulnerable ones

I disagree with Christgau. To me, Stevie's songs signify a far more delicate emotional state--she can't get over Lindsey and she keeps the battle going (dooming him to not be able to get over her) in "Silver Springs," "Dreams," "Gold Dust Woman" (she's driven to cocaine by heartache!), "I Don't Want To Know" (she can't handle the truth... a repeated Rumours motif). Meanwhile, Christine, says to her ex: "Don't Stop!" (get over it!), on "Songbird" she bears the collective's pain through her muse, "You Make Loving Fun"--she's over it and feeling good and comfortable with her womanly needs, and I've written on the blues-bearing complexity of "Oh, Daddy".

[MacShadowsBall]

Deadline for your predictions is tomorrow at Noon.

The poll for Least fav Christine song White album is tomorrow afternoon.

[erwk05]

Worst Lyrics - Warm Ways.

The "used to likes" - None

Songs that could have been better - Crystal could have had more depth - seemed more tinny

Everybody's favorite but not mine - Rhiannon - I like it but It wouldnt be in my top 3

Much better performed live - World Turning in Later Years, also Rhiannon and ISA

Overall least favorite - Sugar Daddy

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

Christgau might be the (original) source for the Stevie-Christine dichotomy in his review of Rumours:

There is also a salon.com review of TISL that discusses this. It says that Christine has the solid vocal, the skills as a musician, the strength, while Stevie is the one in fluttery shawls, but Christine's lyrics beg, while Stevie's lyrics take command. She is Rhiannon. She is inaccessible. She is the one who leaves, not the other way around

Of course, you and I can think of exceptions to both of these rules that the Salon.com writer might not have the catalog of FM knowledge to know about.

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

I disagree with Christgau. To me, Stevie's songs signify a far more delicate emotional state--she can't get over Lindsey and she keeps the battle going

And I always feel that Christine's lyrics have an edge to them and are not as light as they sound. With Say You Love Me and Little Lies, for instance, I do see her in control, because she's letting herself be lied to. She does not believe that guy when he says that he loves her. She just wants to be wooed through the night. Doesn't mean that she denies the truth in the light of day. Deceive me for a little longer, until I'm ready to let go. I'll give you license to mislead. To me, that kind of gives her the power. It's not just please love me (although she does say that too in Why, for instance).

Then, I think of a song like Think About Me was written, knowing that you have Lindsey there. So, she's singing, oh yeah please think about me every once in awhile, if you can spare me a little minute. Whereas Lindsey comes in whooping and DEMANDS to be thought of. Hey you, I'm here and you better acknowledge it! The song lyrics have to be interpreted through the reading they're given and that reading isn't passive. Through the duet and the contrast between Lindsey and Christine's vocals, I think we are seeing both sides of Christine's personality, both readings of her lyrics.

And when I think of SYLM I wonder, why is the phrase, "say that you love me" within the song and the title is just "Say You Love Me." Obviously, the four words make a better, catchier title, so that's probably why. But in my head, I answer myself that it's because the title is a directive, an order and the lyrics within acknowledge that he said it. He said it, even if he didn't mean it. But if she knows he didn't, she's not being used.

Michele