Off-Topic: Elton John today

[iamnotafraid]

HejiraNYC,
Why all the name calling? Do you think she deserved that?
We all have different opinions, but name calling and putting
people down isn't that a little silly and mean?

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

HejiraNYC,
Why all the name calling? Do you think she deserved that?
We all have different opinions, but name calling and putting
people down isn't that a little silly and mean?

Please re-read. I didn't call her any names.

Secondly, if someone is going to call me out, then he/she had better have something rational to say. I love to engage in a friendly debate, but if you come on with the sole intention of stirring up **** without adding anything meaningful to the discussion, then you'd better be prepared to get as good as you can give. What can I say? I don't turn the other cheek. Jesus would not be proud!

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Please re-read. I didn't call her any names.

Secondly, if someone is going to call me out, then he/she had better have something rational to say. I love to engage in a friendly debate, but if you come on with the sole intention of stirring up **** without adding anything meaningful to the discussion, then you'd better be prepared to get as good as you can give. What can I say? I don't turn the other cheek. Jesus would not be proud!

Why should any one grace you with a rational response when you've been posting nothing but irrational/extremist blabber?

Every post you've made in this thread has been equally judgmental & intolerant as the Christians you've accused throughout.

My original point was that you show insensitivity and inflict pain to people every time you express your "opinion" about homosexuality which, as you've acknowledged, is not a choice. If you can call something "wrong" but cannot really articulate what "right" would be, how does that really help anyone? Again, you're entitled to your opinions (which I hope, for your sake, will evolve), but please think before you express them.

What a joke. "I'm being a crybaby bitch because Christian's don't accept my sexual orientation, but I'm going to be equally intolerant and insensitive to their lifestyles. That will teach them! Ha!"

[skcin]

I must say, I'm actually pretty impressed that this thread is still open.

I don't have much to add to the discussion itself, except that you can believe something will happen (ie - all gays will go to hell) but that doesn't mean it WILL happen. it's NOT fact. it's belief. it's opinion. You can believe what you want, but others will probably disagree & that doesn't mean they are wrong.

I have noticed, Ed, that you've ended most of your posts with something like (this is NOT a direct quote) 'you have a right to your opinion, no matter how ignorant it is...' or something similar. Way to throw in YOUR judgement of others when bitching about them judging you. Haven't seen any of the "jesusy" people here say "you can do whatever you want, not matter how ignorant and disgusting and sick and horrific it is..." Implying someone is less intelligent than you are soley becuase you disagree with what they believe is kind of f*cked up.

Originally Posted by carrie721

-both are delicious dipped in peanut butter
-apples can fly for a little bit if you throw them real hard.

point, set, match.

Always the voice of reason.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

It doesn't make sense to me either. Imagine someone who devotes their life to good, does great things, affects positive change in the world, shows people incredible kindness and through it all shows great humility, yet because they have "laid with men" and not repented for that one thing, they would be turned away from heaven? Crazy. If people are to be judged surely it should be on how they have treated others and not who they have loved? (Not that I think it's a sin anyway).

yeah, i don't understand why god would care. if there were a god, i would think he'd just want us to be good to each other.

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

Why should any one grace you with a rational response when you've been posting nothing but irrational/extremist blabber?

Every post you've made in this thread has been equally judgmental & intolerant as the Christians you've accused throughout.

this is exactly why i've pretty much left the "gay community."

"i hate them because they hate us" is silly. i see the same kind of irrational groupthink in the gay community that they accuse the right wing/christians of exhibiting, except in the gay community it's laced with the acerbity of the so-called downtrodden. i left the church to get away from that sort of thing, not so i could running into the arms of another group that behaved the same way. it's not different or better if you're "right," it's the same old bullsh*t and it's plain ol' hypocrisy.

re my "so-called downtrodden" comment: of course i think gays get the short end of the stick in society. i'm not saying we should settle for that. but when you take on the mantle of victim and relish in it as so many have, that's when i have to step out of the ring.

Originally Posted by skcin

Always the voice of reason.

well, i'm pretty smart n junk.

[jaycee]

Originally Posted by carrie721

this is exactly why i've pretty much left the "gay community."

"i hate them because they hate us" is silly. i see the same kind of irrational groupthink in the gay community that they accuse the right wing/christians of exhibiting, except in the gay community it's laced with the acerbity of the so-called downtrodden. i left the church to get away from that sort of thing, not so i could running into the arms of another group that behaved the same way. it's not different or better if you're "right," it's the same old bullsh*t and it's plain ol' hypocrisy.

re my "so-called downtrodden" comment: of course i think gays get the short end of the stick in society. i'm not saying we should settle for that. but when you take on the mantle of victim and relish in it as so many have, that's when i have to step out of the ring.

Ooh, this is interesting! It's something I mull over (or related versions of it) quite a bit, and still haven't finalised an answer for myself! (See mum, I am unsure of myself occasionally! )
On the one hand I can empathise (I won't bother explaining why here) with the frustration oppressed communities have to endure, and I can appreciate why so many get vocal and passionate about it all. On the other hand, it can get to a point where you do indeed appear to be just as bad as the oppressors, which doesn't win much in the way of support. But then if noise isn't made to attract attention, no progress is made because the community is ignored.
At the moment I'd tentatively agree with what Lennon said (http://www.bestofyoutube.com/story.p...met-the-walrus) about violence begetting violence, with peace/love being the only way forward. That said, my rationalism can often come across as aggressive, probably because I like to either have someone tell me why I'm wrong or agree with me, while I often get (at least with some people) a kind of "agree to disagree"/"we'll each believe what we want to" response about things, which I simply can't stand - I hate any form of stagnation, to be honest! I really don't care whether I'm right or wrong about things at any given moment, so long as I'm striving to be right about everything. I mean, if you took all the things I argue passionately about, I'd consider them each to have about a 95%-99% chance of being right, but because I argue passionately about a lot of things, I'd say there's very little chance that I'm right about everything I argue passionately about!
By way of example, about... let's see, perhaps eight months ago, I ardently argued for scientific realism - I'd take on any anti-realist! Then I gathered more evidence and logic arguments, and I'm now an ardent scientific anti-realist! A rather opposite viewpoint, to be sure!
Basically, all I'm saying is that I don't like the notion of holding personal beliefs that are held in the face of rational argument or evidence. So while I often appear very stubborn, I'm ultimately pretty flexible underneath! My "core belief" set is pretty minimal (e.g. physicalism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism), with a lot of Occam's Razor employed! I try to get by with as few unprovable beliefs as I can!
What also usually doesn't help the appearance of my apparent stubbornness is that I don't like to argue about things I'm unsure of - I just listen to what people have to say, and slowly come to a well-defined, but in principle tentative, position.
Yet another rant from me! I hope the only people that read them can enjoy them, or at least find them informative!
PS. carrie721's absolutely right when she says that no-one should relish in being a victim - how can progress be made when you enjoy being victimised?!

EDIT: Wow! I didn't realise I had such a great capacity for irrelevance and stupidity! This must be one of my best efforts at that!
I'd delete this post out of embarrassment, except I think it's probably better to admit to my occasional stupidity rather than cover it up...

[LiamMcConville]

PS. carrie721's absolutely right when she says that no-one should relish in being a victim - how can progress be made when you enjoy being victimised?!

Relevent to discussion.

Originally Posted by jaycee

Ooh, this is interesting! It's something I mull over (or related versions of it) quite a bit, and still haven't finalised an answer for myself! (See mum, I am unsure of myself occasionally! )
On the one hand I can empathise (I won't bother explaining why here) with the frustration oppressed communities have to endure, and I can appreciate why so many get vocal and passionate about it all. On the other hand, it can get to a point where you do indeed appear to be just as bad as the oppressors, which doesn't win much in the way of support. But then if noise isn't made to attract attention, no progress is made because the community is ignored.
At the moment I'd tentatively agree with what Lennon said (http://www.bestofyoutube.com/story.p...met-the-walrus) about violence begetting violence, with peace/love being the only way forward. That said, my rationalism can often come across as aggressive, probably because I like to either have someone tell me why I'm wrong or agree with me, while I often get (at least with some people) a kind of "agree to disagree"/"we'll each believe what we want to" response about things, which I simply can't stand - I hate any form of stagnation, to be honest! I really don't care whether I'm right or wrong about things at any given moment, so long as I'm striving to be right about everything. I mean, if you took all the things I argue passionately about, I'd consider them each to have about a 95%-99% chance of being right, but because I argue passionately about a lot of things, I'd say there's very little chance that I'm right about everything I argue passionately about!
By way of example, about... let's see, perhaps eight months ago, I ardently argued for scientific realism - I'd take on any anti-realist! Then I gathered more evidence and logic arguments, and I'm now an ardent scientific anti-realist! A rather opposite viewpoint, to be sure!
Basically, all I'm saying is that I don't like the notion of holding personal beliefs that are held in the face of rational argument or evidence. So while I often appear very stubborn, I'm ultimately pretty flexible underneath! My "core belief" set is pretty minimal (e.g. physicalism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism), with a lot of Occam's Razor employed! I try to get by with as few unprovable beliefs as I can!
What also usually doesn't help the appearance of my apparent stubbornness is that I don't like to argue about things I'm unsure of - I just listen to what people have to say, and slowly come to a well-defined, but in principle tentative, position.
Yet another rant from me! I hope the only people that read them can enjoy them, or at least find them informative!

Irrelevent to discussion.