Would Stevie have become the success she is without Lindsey

[RoseGarden]

There are some very good points stated here.
I voted unsure ..... I really think Stevie would have broke out into country music even if it took her until she was 40 to be noticed. Stevie was destined to be a musical story teller.

[grace_face]

I was re-reading Read Between My Lines last night, and was thinking about how Buckingham Nicks didn't get any real commercial success, but then later on after she and Lindsey were already known, it became popular.

And to me, the songs sound very Fleetwood Mac-ish, so it annoys me actually that nobody gave them that recognition back then...it's like some sort of nerd making a joke and nobody laughing, and then 5 minutes later a cool kid makes the exact same joke and everyone laughs. NOT FAIR! But then of course, if they'd been successful, they wouldn't probably have joined FM.

I think Lindsey and Stevie, not necessarily as a pair, but in combination with Fleetwood Mac's vibe and the timing of everything in the music industry and society, made it so they and especially Stevie, so gorgeous, unique and charismatic, became really amazingly popular. I think it was just a combination of many factors and the right timing.

In terms of Lindsey adding his magic to Stevie's songs...I don't really know...but I think this is a big thing. He really did give a lot of her songs the magical sort of feeling and catchiness we know today...but then, on her solo songs, he wasn't there to do that then, and they're still amazing...so who the hell knows! My brain hurts now.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by grace_face

I was re-reading Read Between My Lines last night, and was thinking about how Buckingham Nicks didn't get any real commercial success, but then later on after she and Lindsey were already known, it became popular.

And to me, the songs sound very Fleetwood Mac-ish, so it annoys me actually that nobody gave them that recognition back then...it's like some sort of nerd making a joke and nobody laughing, and then 5 minutes later a cool kid makes the exact same joke and everyone laughs. NOT FAIR! But then of course, if they'd been successful, they wouldn't probably have joined FM.

I think Lindsey and Stevie, not necessarily as a pair, but in combination with Fleetwood Mac's vibe and the timing of everything in the music industry and society, made it so they and especially Stevie, so gorgeous, unique and charismatic, became really amazingly popular. I think it was just a combination of many factors and the right timing.

In terms of Lindsey adding his magic to Stevie's songs...I don't really know...but I think this is a big thing. He really did give a lot of her songs the magical sort of feeling and catchiness we know today...but then, on her solo songs, he wasn't there to do that then, and they're still amazing...so who the hell knows! My brain hurts now.

You've definitely summed up my feelings on the matter. Buckingham Nicks is indeed similar in style to the first several Fleetwood Mac albums, especially Lindsey's material. Stevie however, blossomed by leaps and bounds in Fleetwood Mac. In Buckingham Nicks, she was still a bit raw and unpolished. I think being in a band with such strong personalities, she kinda had to carve out her own identity more, and up her ante. Her vocals on the early Fleetwood Mac albums are far superior to anything she did in Buckingham Nicks, and even more notably her lyrics got WAY better post '75. Perhaps more notably yet, she polished her visual style in Fleetwood Mac, and blossomed into one of the most gorgeous and unique women rock has ever seen. Stevie has always been a talent... but she needed the nurturing of years of struggling with Lindsey, then the inter-competition within Fleetwood Mac to truly make her great.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

You've definitely summed up my feelings on the matter. Buckingham Nicks is indeed similar in style to the first several Fleetwood Mac albums, especially Lindsey's material.

The reason is because those are Buckingham Nicks tracks. If you remove Christine McVie's songs off the first two albums, you essentially have Buckingham Nicks II.

Stevie however, blossomed by leaps and bounds in Fleetwood Mac. In Buckingham Nicks, she was still a bit raw and unpolished. I think being in a band with such strong personalities, she kinda had to carve out her own identity more, and up her ante. Her vocals on the early Fleetwood Mac albums are far superior to anything she did in Buckingham Nicks, and even more notably her lyrics got WAY better post '75. Perhaps more notably yet, she polished her visual style in Fleetwood Mac, and blossomed into one of the most gorgeous and unique women rock has ever seen. Stevie has always been a talent... but she needed the nurturing of years of struggling with Lindsey, then the inter-competition within Fleetwood Mac to truly make her great.

Whoa, I disagree with your BN assessment. She sounds just as good there as she did on the early FM, which as I pointed out was an extension of already conceieved (for the most part) BN tunes.

I agree FM catapulted her into stardom but I think everything you pointed out about Stevie had been cultivated in Fritz and early BN. Let's not forget (ducking all the pre-BN lovers here) that BN is what caused FM's sucess to explode. When she calls FM "her" band...I think she's right. BN owned that band after "Rumours" and it took them both coming back in '97 to salvage it.

Would Stevie had been the success she is without Lindsey? No. She said herself they were both too afraid to leave San Francisco alone. They needed each other. If she had not met him, who knows? Could she have been successful? Maybe - but more than likely she would have always needed someone like Lindsey to mold her songs into radio friendly music.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Whoa, I disagree with your BN assessment. She sounds just as good there as she did on the early FM, which as I pointed out was an extension of already conceieved (for the most part) BN tunes.

I kind of agree with Louie about her vocals on the BN album. However, the BN live boots we have . . . she's smokin'. So, she had the pipes then. She just didn't use them to great effect on that studio album, imo.

Michele

[David]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Let's not forget (ducking all the pre-BN lovers here) that BN is what caused FM's sucess to explode.

But BN had to gel into BN first (which took about four years). That's why BN couldn't get BN to explode.

Lindsey & Stevie didn't join FM as superstars; in fact, they joined as commercial failures. They turned into superstars & commercial powerhouses only after having been in FM for a year or two, & by that time, the entire group was really big & it was already difficult to separate out the individual strands responsible for all the hits & the fame.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by David

But BN had to gel into BN first (which took about four years). That's why BN couldn't get BN to explode.

Lindsey & Stevie didn't join FM as superstars; in fact, they joined as commercial failures. They turned into superstars & commercial powerhouses only after having been in FM for a year or two, & by that time, the entire group was really big & it was already difficult to separate out the individual strands responsible for all the hits & the fame.

I think the BN sound infused into FM (along with great PR by Warners) is what really caused the band to go over the top. I believe BN would have been successful - not as successful without FM but they were being played in the South and establishing a solid fan base here. I think it would have continued to grow. Personally, I think they were being courted or had other labels interested...maybe even WB... I don't think Olsen had given up on them yet, which is why he played FL for Mick that fateful day...

But, you are right on about it being difficult to separate out those strands. And, I think that's why Stevie likes FM so much as it was with Christine - Stevie gets to be shuffled in and the mix becomes much more muddled. Otherwise, if you take Christine out, it does go back to BN and you can definitely hear Lindsey's influence all over her songs. I think that fact alone brings out all sorts of insecurities whether she would admit it or not.

[David]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I think the BN sound infused into FM (along with great PR by Warners) is what really caused the band to go over the top. I believe BN would have been successful - not as successful without FM but they were being played in the South and establishing a solid fan base here. I think it would have continued to grow. Personally, I think they were being courted or had other labels interested...maybe even WB...

I guess I'm not very knowledgeable about those days. I thought B&N were forced into the position of doing their second album on spec. I had no idea that record labels were lined up hoping to sign them.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I think the BN sound infused into FM (along with great PR by Warners) is what really caused the band to go over the top.

Warners pushed the BN dynamic? Huh? They released two CM singles, and the one Stevie song/BN composition, "Rhiannon", was pretty middling in terms of Top 40 success. I don't think Warner needed to push any PR as far as the band's relationships went.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

The reason is because those are Buckingham Nicks tracks. If you remove Christine McVie's songs off the first two albums, you essentially have Buckingham Nicks II.



Whoa, I disagree with your BN assessment. She sounds just as good there as she did on the early FM, which as I pointed out was an extension of already conceieved (for the most part) BN tunes.

See? And I can't disagree with that more . Just imagine Rhiannon without John McVie's killer bass... or Dreams without Mick Fleetwood's snarey drums. Fleetwood Mac MADE those songs into what they are. We know The Chain is another Stevie lyric song... just imagine that one without the Fleetwood Mac influence on it. Fleetwood Mac was the glazing that made Stevie's doughnut edible... the sugar that made her coffee drinkable . Stevie needed Lindsey to work with her for years crafting her sound and style... and even more so, she needed Fleetwood Mac to polish up her songs into a blinding sheen to make them digestible for the general public. Still having doubts? Listen to Crying In The Night and Gold Dust Woman back to back... those songs are not only in different leagues, they're in different universes. Stevie developed her mystical sound and style as a reaction to listening to the back catalogue of Mac material (she's said this herself), and as a need to set herself apart in a band of big personalities. In BN she was writing songs about sunflowers and whores... in Fleetwood Mac she wrote about mythological ladies and dreams . Stevie had the possibility of breaking into the music biz without Lindsey or Fleetwood Mac, but she wouldn't have had the chance at becoming a superstar.

[Matthew]

Maybe later, but I´m sure she would be success singer even without working with Lindsey. She writes, she sings... sooner or later she would definitely be a star. Maybe not so big (because without Fleetwood Mac), but I´m sure we would know about her.