Nobody does it better....

[HejiraNYC]

Don't agree! I offer up "Smile at You" and "Silver Girl" as evidence. "Desiny Rules" was a great song that was poorly executed- it should have been done in a higher key and with a stronger vocal. Ditto "Say You Will." One of the primary roles of the producer is tell the artist whether something is or is not working. Songs like "Welcome to the Room... Sara", "When I See You Again" and "Silver Girl" should have definitely been aborted.

I think Stevie's best collaborators, by far, have been Jimmy Iovine and John Shanks. Stevie's worst collaborators have been Rupert Hine and Mike Campbell tied in first, with Sheryl Crow close behind. I think Lindsey is somewhere in the upper middle of the spectrum.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Don't agree! I offer up "Smile at You" and "Silver Girl" as evidence. "Desiny Rules" was a great song that was poorly executed- it should have been done in a higher key and with a stronger vocal. Ditto "Say You Will." One of the primary roles of the producer is tell the artist whether something is or is not working. Songs like "Welcome to the Room... Sara", "When I See You Again" and "Silver Girl" should have definitely been aborted.

I think Stevie's best collaborators, by far, have been Jimmy Iovine and John Shanks. Stevie's worst collaborators have been Rupert Hine and Mike Campbell tied in first, with Sheryl Crow close behind. I think Lindsey is somewhere in the upper middle of the spectrum.

I agree with this.... great points... I'll even say that Lindsey could stand to use a producer himself at times..

[David]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I think Stevie's best collaborators, by far, have been Jimmy Iovine and John Shanks.

Nothing Iovine or Shanks produced or orchestrated for Nicks is anywhere near the inventiveness & quality of GYPSY or DREAMS -- or SEVEN WONDERS, for that matter. Lindsey's well seems to me to have run dry, but there was a time when he perfectly complemented her goofy words & passionate singing.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by David

Nothing Iovine or Shanks produced or orchestrated for Nicks is anywhere near the inventiveness & quality of GYPSY or DREAMS -- or SEVEN WONDERS, for that matter. Lindsey's well seems to me to have run dry, but there was a time when he perfectly complemented her goofy words & passionate singing.

I definitely agree with you on "Gypsy"- the proof is there when you listen to the finished FM version vs. the solo versions produced by Iovine, which I think are pretty much unlistenable. And I also agree re: "Dreams," which is so simple in structure that it is incredibly difficult to pull off effectively, yet Lindsey does it. I would add "Sara" to that list as well. As for "Seven Wonders," I suspect this is one of those songs that pretty much came to Lindsey in finished form (e.g., SYW) since it sounds more like a Sandy Stewart song (with it's big brassy synths) than something Lindsey would normally produce.

I'm not sure if the well is dry as much as Lindsey has pretty much decided that he's had it up-to-here with trying to give shape to Stevie's raw material. I'm sure it can be pretty painful for him to sit there sifting through her crudely rendered demos trying to look for the diamond in the rough when everything looks like coal.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I'm not sure if the well is dry as much as Lindsey has pretty much decided that he's had it up-to-here with trying to give shape to Stevie's raw material. I'm sure it can be pretty painful for him to sit there sifting through her crudely rendered demos trying to look for the diamond in the rough when everything looks like coal.

Well, he acts like he recognized Thrown Down as a diamond and he thought he mined it, but others disagree.

But what you said about demos reminds me of Stevie: "Your songs are like beautiful, hand crafted Russian boxes with enamel and cloisonne and sound like you've worked on them for seven years, and my little songs are like pine boxes."

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

As for her SYW songs... I suspect that without Christine there to help massage egos and provide diplomatic assistance, Stevie's ego must have been out of control, which probably resulted in Lindsey being reluctant to tell her when things were not so good. Her self-comparison to Bob Dylan was quite telling...

I guess it was hard to avoid hurt feelings on both sides, even though I think they both pulled punches during the recording process. That little clip we got (VH1 All Access, maybe?) that never made it into Destiny Rules, was the most interesting thing I'd seen from the making of SYW where she's going something like, "I knew you wouldn't like that song, because I wrote it" and he says, "It's not because you wrote it. It's the song." I wish we could have seen that whole exchange and some of their song by song struggles.

Same thing with him. I'd have liked to see the band (either all 3 of them or the men before Stevie got there) deciding which of his GOS songs would be good for the FM album and which they didn't want. Although, since he got Come, Murrow, and Red Rover maybe the band didn't participate in making the GOS selections after all.

Michele

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Don't agree! I offer up "Smile at You" and "Silver Girl" as evidence. "Desiny Rules" was a great song that was poorly executed- it should have been done in a higher key and with a stronger vocal. Ditto "Say You Will." One of the primary roles of the producer is tell the artist whether something is or is not working. Songs like "Welcome to the Room... Sara", "When I See You Again" and "Silver Girl" should have definitely been aborted.

I think Stevie's best collaborators, by far, have been Jimmy Iovine and John Shanks. Stevie's worst collaborators have been Rupert Hine and Mike Campbell tied in first, with Sheryl Crow close behind. I think Lindsey is somewhere in the upper middle of the spectrum.

I agree that at one time Lindsey was the magic maker for Stevie's songs. That time period would have been 1975-1982. Since then, I think he's hurt her more than helped her. Just listen to her Tango In The Night tracks... aweful. Her Say You Will tracks aren't much better. Just listen to the original Thrown Down from her solo sessions with Lindsey (aka the Wall of Sound version), and see how much better it is than what ended up on Say You Will. Same goes for Smile At You and Silver Girl... also MUCH better as DEMOS than what ended up on Say You Will. I do just ADORE Destiny Rules though... one of their better collaborations EVER!

I don't know... I just think Lindsey maybe has a talent for bringing out Stevie's true self in her songs. When she was at her creative pinnacle and was soberish (1975-1982) Lindsey definitely brought out her true talent and polished it to a sheen. When she started to go downhill creatively and personally (1985-?) he certainly had a talent at showing she was drying up. If Stevie gives him strong material to work with, he can do great things. If what she gives him is less than great, he showcases that as well. Case and point, Stevie's voice certainly had weakened by the time of Say You Will. Instead of trying to hide that behind vocal layering and such, he just left her vocals mostly bare and put it right out there (ala the SYW Thrown Down vs the Wall o' Sound version). Sans Destiny Rules, he just left her voice bare and unadorned... no layering, no cave-ish echo, he let it be known her range isn't what it used to be, she's more nasal, flat, etc. I don't necessarily think it's a form of revenge like she's suggested, but I think it's instead his way as an artist of capturing a moment in time, much the same way a photographer would do (no painting vs movie jokes!!! LOL).

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I think it's instead his way as an artist of capturing a moment in time, much the same way a photographer would do (no painting vs movie jokes!!! LOL).

Oh, kind of like Kristen captured him for the GOS album cover.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

One of the primary roles of the producer is tell the artist whether something is or is not working. Songs like "Welcome to the Room... Sara", "When I See You Again" and "Silver Girl" should have definitely been aborted.

yeah right,
like if ms Nicks would have any collaboration left on Tango. She was just Bad those days.

I think Silver Girl would have been dropped if Lindsey did NOT have had his time off from the band. He just wanted to be there too much.

[Villavic]

depends on the song? I think Gypsy, 7Wonders, Storms, GDWoman, were great in their final arrangement. PRevious demos are not so good. In those cases, Lindsey was great.

But Stop draggin, Stand Back, Leather&Lace, were really great too, and I don't know if Lindsey could have done better

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

yeah right,
like if ms Nicks would have any collaboration left on Tango. She was just Bad those days.

I think Silver Girl would have been dropped if Lindsey did NOT have had his time off from the band. He just wanted to be there too much.

I actually think "Juliet"/"Book of Miracles" would have been interesting if they just kept working at it; the demo is rockin'! And it would have been interesting to see how Lindsey would have approached "Battle of the Dragon" (one of her best songs ever, IMHO), which was released just before TITN. And I do love what he did with "Joan of Arc," even though it is definitely one of their more bizarre collaborations. It's just a shame that Stevie's two weakest songs from that era ended up on the album!

As for her SYW songs... I suspect that without Christine there to help massage egos and provide diplomatic assistance, Stevie's ego must have been out of control, which probably resulted in Lindsey being reluctant to tell her when things were not so good. Her self-comparison to Bob Dylan was quite telling...

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

As for her SYW songs... I suspect that without Christine there to help massage egos and provide diplomatic assistance, Stevie's ego must have been out of control, which probably resulted in Lindsey being reluctant to tell her when things were not so good. Her self-comparison to Bob Dylan was quite telling...

I think that musically Christine was the only one who could stand up to Lindsey because he does respect her abilities as a musician. I always think Lindsey pushes Christine slightly farther than she wants to go (a good thing) and she reins in the worst of his excesses (another good thing)

Having another view on a song would undoubtedly have helped and perhaps Stevie wouldn't have said that her demos were better than the songs that appeared on the album

Gail

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I actually think "Juliet"/"Book of Miracles" would have been interesting if they just kept working at it; the demo is rockin'! And it would have been interesting to see how Lindsey would have approached "Battle of the Dragon" (one of her best songs ever, IMHO), which was released just before TITN. And I do love what he did with "Joan of Arc," even though it is definitely one of their more bizarre collaborations. It's just a shame that Stevie's two weakest songs from that era ended up on the album!

As for her SYW songs... I suspect that without Christine there to help massage egos and provide diplomatic assistance, Stevie's ego must have been out of control, which probably resulted in Lindsey being reluctant to tell her when things were not so good. Her self-comparison to Bob Dylan was quite telling...

BUT I don't think she was comparing herself to Dylan in terms of the quality of their writting skills. She was trying to make the point that he has a very unique style all his own just like she does.

[GoS]

I think she just stinks either way.



I would agree. Tusk= her best stuff ever.

And for those of you complaining about what he did to her SYW songs, I have this to say: listen to his stuff on that album (if you can). He butchered almost all of his songs on that album and returned the favor to Stevie as well.

[kennation]

Disagree- Trouble in Shangri-la was her best work since after Tusk. Sorry, but Stevie's best work was BellaDonna, and TISL. Neither of which had anything to do with Lindsey.

[Peestie]

I don't get the hate for Smile At You or Thrown Down. The first time I heard SAY I loved it and I still do. I think it's a great song and a great production. The demo is good as well but I don't like it as much as SYW version. I love Lindsey's SYW production and the real edge that it has. It's a bit more suited to his solo style than the classic 70's FM vibe but I don't think it doesn't work on Stevie's stuff. Personally, I think he did a great job and the only main production flaw (and I guess it's a pretty major one) is that he didn't lock Stevie in the vocal booth until she didn't sound like she was bored to be there.