More Palin Lies

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

He said last night on 60 Minutes that he didn't want a war with Russia. The NATO treaty mandates "response" from all allies which isn't the same as war. This idea doesn't fit on a bumper sticker, so I guess it's beyond the democrats.

He has said countless times one thing and later said/done the opposite. When he said that he did not want war he meant not this moment. Compare the McCain 2000 voting record vs the McCain 2008 ideas for an example.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

He has said countless times one thing and later said/done the opposite. When he said that he did not want war he meant not this moment. Compare the McCain 2000 voting record vs the McCain 2008 ideas for an example.

Name one thing where he's said something and done the opposite. One thing people usually say about McCain is that he's consistent if nothing else.

[Sorceress]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Name one thing where he's said something and done the opposite. One thing people usually say about McCain is that he's consistent if nothing else.

Well, he co-sponsored two immigration bills in 2006 and 2007 and now says that he himself wouldn't vote for either of them. He and his staff actually coauthored the bills, but apparently the views that informed their creation are no longer politically expedient.

It's disengenous to hold McCain above the ugliness of politics, paint him as an outsider, or pretend he's not a part of the demonized "elite". He may have been a maverick at one point and wasn't afraid to work with whomever needed to get things done, but this election has proven that he can abandon principles as fast as needed to win over the Right.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Sorceress

Well, he co-sponsored two immigration bills in 2006 and 2007 and now says that he himself wouldn't vote for either of them. He and his staff actually coauthored the bills, but apparently the views that informed their creation are no longer politically expedient.

It's disengenous to hold McCain above the ugliness of politics, paint him as an outsider, or pretend he's not a part of the demonized "elite". He may have been a maverick at one point and wasn't afraid to work with whomever needed to get things done, but this election has proven that he can abandon principles as fast as needed to win over the Right.

That's a bit of an oversimplication. The bills ended up becoming something other than what he had originally intended. I mean, look up any bill, I just looked up the housing rescue today and there were about 100 amendments attached to it. I'm sure McCain's immigration bills were no different.

[Sorceress]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

That's a bit of an oversimplication. The bills ended up becoming something other than what he had originally intended. I mean, look up any bill, I just looked up the housing rescue today and there were about 100 amendments attached to it. I'm sure McCain's immigration bills were no different.

You requested an example of a switch-up. I provided one. Please don't dismiss it based on an erroneous assumption.

Actually, the bills proposed such things as amnesty and increasing the number of people allowed to immigrate legally. Now he is saying that his primary focus is to seal the borders. It's quite a turn-around, really.

Don't believe everything you hear, and don't assume that just because he's a Republican, he's faultless. McCain was never the darling of the Right. He used to be, in fact, the darling of the press. Now he participates in the disingenuous media bashing, ditches his unpopular moderate views, and chooses a VP even he must know is unqualified--all in an attempt to pander to the Right. He thinks he can't win without the Evangelicals and the Neo-Cons. It's sad to watch him lose integrity in order to satisfy his personal ambition.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Sorceress

You requested an example of a switch-up. I provided one. Please don't dismiss it based on an erroneous assumption.

Actually, the bills proposed such things as amnesty and increasing the number of people allowed to immigrate legally. Now he is saying that his primary focus is to seal the borders. It's quite a turn-around, really.

Don't believe everything you hear, and don't assume that just because he's a Republican, he's faultless. McCain was never the darling of the Right. He used to be, in fact, the darling of the press. Now he participates in the disingenuous media bashing, ditches his unpopular moderate views, and chooses a VP even he must know is unqualified--all in an attempt to pander to the Right. He thinks he can't win without the Evangelicals and the Neo-Cons. It's sad to watch him lose integrity in order to satisfy his personal ambition.

It was never an amnesty bill. It came with stiff penalties and other measures to punish those who remained. He always said he planned on sealing the border too. Don't give me that.
He was never a moderate, the media just liked to play it up when he disagreed with his party. If you look at his voting record, he has a conservative record of 82%, whereas uberconservative Fred Thompson has an 86%. He always was a conservative. He was just more fun than the rest.

Palin actually has executive experience, as does McCain when he commanded the country's largest Navy battalion. Obama and Biden have zip. Palin has a wee bit more experience than Obama does. Obama has been running for president the entire time he's been in the Senate and has logged 144 days. Palin actually went to work for Alaska and has something of a record to run on, such as reforming her party and cleaning house. She also oversaw a state budget of 10 Billion and managed 12,000 employees. Obama has run his Senate office staff. His own boss when he was a community organizer said that Obama accomplished little to nothing. Obama has very minor accomplishments and even tried to lie last night on 60 minutes when he said he and McCain had the same amount of executive experience, despite McCain running a Navy Battalion. He actually said that running a campaign qualified him to be president. David Axelrod runs his campaign. I don't know why the Obama/Biden ticket isn't reversed.
I don't believe McCain is faultless, he admits his own imperfections, I just think he'll screw things up a lot less than Obama would. Obama, on the other hand, plays up on the idea he's some sort of change messiah, when he's really just a skilled politician old-school Chicago style and utterly helpless without a teleprompter. McCain is smart enough to know when he doesn't have the answers and needs to ask for help. Obama is arrogant enough to think that he knows it all.

[Sorceress]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

It was never an amnesty bill. It came with stiff penalties and other measures to punish those who remained. He always said he planned on sealing the border too. Don't give me that.
He was never a moderate, the media just liked to play it up when he disagreed with his party. If you look at his voting record, he has a conservative record of 82%, whereas uberconservative Fred Thompson has an 86%. He always was a conservative. He was just more fun than the rest.

I have close personal experience with the immigration bill, and I know what was in it. You're mischaracterizing McCain's position, which was widely criticized by the Right at the time, which he has had refocus in order to gain their favor.

I'm not sure where you got the 82% Conservative record, but look at the trend in his voting.

From FactCheck.org: "According to Congressional Quarterly's Voting Studies, in 2007 McCain voted in line with the president's position 95 percent of the time – the highest percentage rate for McCain since Bush took office – and voted in line with his party 90 percent of the time. However, McCain's support of President Bush's position has been as low as 77 percent (in 2005), and his support for his party's position has been as low as 67 percent (2001)." I believe he has voted with Bush's explicitly supported bills 100% of the time in 2008.

I guess he can still call himself a maverick if he wants to, but only in the sense that he's been voting with W when Americans clearly don't approve of what he's doing.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Name one thing where he's said something and done the opposite. One thing people usually say about McCain is that he's consistent if nothing else.

I invite you to read John Kerry's speech at the DNC he went into depth on the subject. McCain has done or said things that he previously/later called stupid.

Here is an excerpt of Kerry's Speech

I have known and been friends with John McCain for almost 22 years. But every day now I learn something new about candidate McCain. To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick instead of the reality of a politician, I say, let’s compare Senator McCain to candidate McCain.

Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you’re against it.

The full thing is here