"The hope rises again and the dream lives on . . . ." DNC chat

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Meh - he has terminal brain cancer amd is the very last of an outstanding generation -- so, I cut him a break.

Of course I wasn't joking about his illness.

But the "last" of an outstanding generation? Ted Kennedy?

[Betsy]

I didn't get to *see* him speak, but the convention was live on NPR so I heard it as I was driving home.

Whoever was speaking used the sea as a metaphor (was it Caroline's speech or the videoclip?)

...about how the water meant a lot to Teddy coming from Massachusetts and teaching the younger Kennedys how to sail, etc., etc.

My mind began to wander -- and remember 1969 -- and how water figured so dramatically in Ted's life.

But the mantra about Teddy being a senator from Mass and being everybody's advocate, brought me back to 2008.

The NPR guys described the scene as everyone in the hall having a Kennedy sign and that it was very moving....the highlight of the night.

When I asked my husband about the signs, he said, he never saw one. (He was watching CNN's coverage.)

Enough of my rambling...here are a couple questions.

1. What was the visual like? The TV coverage of the convention hall...did the delegates seem interested in listening to the speeches, or did they look tired and bored?

2. On the radio, the announcers kept interrupting to talk amongst themselves...which I hated. I wanted to hear the convention, not the radio-know-it-alls....and the topic was if and how the Clintons are gonna upstage Obama and take over the convention. Was anything along those lines mentioned on TV?

BTW... #3. Anybody read Rolling Stone? Here's two interesting articles:
August 21, 2008 Michael Moore "How the Democrats Can Blow it"
Sept. 4, 2008 - How Bush Destroyed the Republican Party by Sean Wilentz

[BombaySapphire3]

Don't be dissing the Kennedys. They did alot for this country and could have done alot more good if two of them weren't assasinated , unlike that other political dynsasty that have runied it perhaps for years.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Don't be dissing the Kennedys. They did alot for this country and could have done alot more good if two of them weren't assasinated , unlike that other political dynsasty that have runied it perhaps for years.

You mean JFK escalating our military and political commitments in Vietnam?
Look how that war ended.

And as far as the other political dynasty, how's the Iraq thing going? Oh yeah,
we are winning no thanks to the Democrats.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

You mean JFK escalating our military and political commitments in Vietnam?
Look how that war ended.

And as far as the other political dynasty, how's the Iraq thing going? Oh yeah,
we are winning no thanks to the Democrats.

I thought we won the Iraqi war 5 anda half years ago when Bushie paraded around on the deck of the U.S.S . Abraham Lincoln in military drag behind a "Mission Accomplished "banner?That war should have never happened and over 2/3 of Americans believe that..it will be remembered as one of the darker times in our history and our "war president" who unlike JFk didn't even bother to show up for service will be remembered as what he is the lamest President of modern times perhaps of all time.

[gldstwmn]

Great speech tonight by Michelle Obama. It was a poignant moment seeing Caroline speak and Maria Shriver crying when Teddy took the stage. He has done much good. Out of all the people in town for this thing, I always hoped I'd run into him the most.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Great speech tonight by Michelle Obama . . . .

I thought so too. I thought the kids on stage was a bit over the top, but it will play well to Middle America because it portrays them as a tight family, which they likely are but were not really perceived as such.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

I thought we won the Iraqi war 5 anda half years ago when Bushie paraded around on the deck of the U.S.S . Abraham Lincoln in military drag behind a "Mission Accomplished "banner?That war should have never happened and over 2/3 of Americans believe that..it will be remembered as one of the darker times in our history and our "war president" who unlike JFk didn't even bother to show up for service will be remembered as what he is the lamest President of modern times perhaps of all time.

1. A blunder on his and his advisors part on the Mission Accomplished.
2. Don't worry about the polls, they change all the time. You can't lead
the country by them like Clinton tried to do.
3. We are not far away from this yet to truly judge whether this is one of
our darkest times. Not even close is my opinion.
4. He was in the National Guard, even if he was shown preferential treatment.
I wish everyone would be a little more careful about putting down the Guard.
My father was a member, and he was called up during the Cuban Missle Crisis.
5. Which is it? The lamest or evil genious, you really can't have it both ways.
If he tricked all of us into this war, how could he be lame? Maybe that says
something about all of us (if that's true).

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

5. Which is it? The lamest or evil genious, you really can't have it both ways.
If he tricked all of us into this war, how could he be lame? Maybe that says
something about all of us (if that's true).

Nah Cheney is the brains in that outfit.Tricked all of us into war?!Again speak for yourself I'd invite you to go back and read my posts on this subject in March of 2003..I for one was far from tricked even before that debacle began.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

And as far as the other political dynasty, how's the Iraq thing going? Oh yeah,
we are winning no thanks to the Democrats.

Woo! We are winning. And at what price? Our treasury has been bankrupted by this war and countless are dead. Why the fukc are we there again? Seriously, can you tell me why we are there?

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Woo! We are winning. And at what price? Our treasury has been bankrupted by this war and countless are dead. Why the fukc are we there again? Seriously, can you tell me why we are there?

Yes, we are winning. At the highest cost. War is Hell.

Maybe we are there to kill terrorist and yes for the OIL!

Even after all we've spent our economy has been strong enough to pull through it.
It it wasn't for the Banks & Mortgage Companies loaning money to people who don't
qualify for loans, and people just over extending themselves, you wouldn't be hearing about how bad the economy is.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Yes, we are winning. At the highest cost. War is Hell.

The point is we never had to go in the first place. There was no Al-Q presence in Iraq. In fact, they hated each other. To suggest otherwise ignores that facts.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Maybe we are there to kill terrorist

The terrorists who attacked us were not there at all prior to the invasion. Moreover, had W put enough troops there to begin with, Al-Q would not have the alleged foothold it now has there even if we toppled SH, which was a good thing at too expensive a cost when the people that attacked us were and still are running loose.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

and yes for the OIL!

and - we were too stupid even to get that now weren't we. Because, if we have it, that's news to me. Why the hell isn't Iraq paying us back for this instead of having huge surpluses when all we have is debt incurred to get Iraq on its feet.

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

It it wasn't for the Banks & Mortgage Companies loaning money to people who don't qualify for loans, and people just over extending themselves, you wouldn't be hearing about how bad the economy is.

Actually, the economy was in bad shape prior to then.

I blame the Bush Admin. because it knew that was going on (Greenspan continuously warned about it) for years and passed no law to stop it. But, they could not because that phantom wealth was driving the economy since W took office.

But, even if you take that fiasco out of the equati0n, the bottom line is W spent a trillion or so dollar surplus and then borrowed at least that much to pay for Iraq. That tab would has to be paid despite the housing crisis

I get that you are passionate about W, but surely you see these facts

Again, if W were your employee and he bankrupted your business, made most of your customers hate you, and he never succeeded at anything -- would you keep him employed or would you fire him? I think you know the answer to that.

[Steviefan49]

I had to share this awesome article with you guys this morning..

Obama faces twin task in wooing Clinton backers By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
Tue Aug 26, 3:43 AM ET



DENVER - Meet Cindy Lerner and Leeann Ormsbee, the two faces of Barack Obama's struggle to win over Hillary Rodham Clinton's most fervent supporters — a task that could determine whether he becomes president.

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They travel in different social and economic circles: one white-collar and financially safe, one working-class and less secure. They have different educations, backgrounds and reasons for backing Clinton's presidential bid.

But both are self-described Democrats who say they may not vote for Obama this fall. And in that, they personify the complexity and urgency of his efforts to close rifts left by a marathon primary.

The most striking story line of the Democratic convention's first day was the tenacity and emotion of Clinton backers. They unapologetically threatened to disrupt the four-day event's unity theme, demanding that Clinton be honored with a prime-time nominating roll call vote on Wednesday — whether she wants it or not.

In conversations with die-hard Clinton backers, it became increasingly clear that her campaign was at least as much about them as about her. With 10 weeks to go to Obama's showdown with Republican John McCain, they remain loath to turn it loose, even if their doggedness might help the GOP keep the White House.

"I'm not there yet," said Lerner, a Miami lawyer, as she sat with fellow Florida delegates Monday wearing a Clinton button and a frown. "I hope we can use this convention to help Obama's campaign and his administration understand what millions of women in this country live everyday in terms of a lack of respect."

Lerner, 55, cited unequal pay, unfair workplace promotions and a "good ol' boy network that is still alive and well in the corporate world and in the political world."

"Delegates all over the country feel like I do," she said.

Ormsbee, meanwhile, was far away, cleaning houses in Waterford, Ohio. Single, 29, with a high school education, she might have trouble relating to Lerner's anger. Her concerns are mostly pocketbook and kitchen-table affairs, she said.

Clinton won her heart more by promising to fight for the working class than by talking of glass ceilings. But Ormbee's doubts about Obama are no less pressing than Lerner's. And she, too, feels Clinton has been disrespected.

Obama "made a foolish choice" in picking Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate, Ormsbee said in a telephone interview. "He could have been president if he had picked Hillary. How stupid can you be? It seems like he did it to spite her."

In battleground states such as Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida, Obama needs to win the vote of every Clinton supporter he possibly can. But he must appeal to them with different themes, to address their varying grievances and fears.

Lerner and many professional women like her saw Clinton's campaign as a chance to redeem their own struggles against sexism and hundreds of slights, large and small, over the years. They want empathy and respect from Obama, and Clinton is their surrogate.

Eleanor Strickland, a Florida delegate and Clinton supporter, has a master's degree in advertising and a successful career behind her. But she remembers a Chicago ad agency directing her to train a man with less education and fewer qualifications to be an account executive.

"There was no thought that a woman could be an account executive," she said.

Hearing that Clinton might not seek a full-blown roll call of her name in nomination, Strickland said: "I think she's being pressured. It's disrespectful. ... I think she was robbed."

She shared a Denver taxi with Florida delegate Catherine Leisek, an art professor and fellow Clinton backer. When Leisek worked at an art institute in 1980, a male co-worker said, "Honey, can you type this?"

No, Leisek had replied, adding that her secretary might.

In Garretsville, Ohio, Susan Carroll also is a Democrat and Clinton backer. But she can't match the college degrees and salaries that Leisek and Strickland have enjoyed. She packages cheese in a factory, and worries about paying bills and obtaining affordable health care.

Carroll, 44, said she is not sure how she will vote in November. "I want to start reading and learning more" about what Obama and McCain are proposing, she said.

While Obama addresses the feminist-related resentments of women like Cindy Lerner, he almost must speak to the economic worries of the Susan Carrolls. Polls show him struggling to attract significant numbers of white Democrats without college educations who supported Clinton in the primaries.

In Denver, Clinton admirer Chris Lomas, 45, has reconciled herself to backing Obama. But she thinks she knows why so many of her sisters have not.

The contest between the two "was so close, and went on so long," said Lomas, a first-year law student and Florida delegate. "People got so emotionally involved."

Obama has 10 weeks to speak to those emotions and, if possible, keep McCain from stealing a crucial number of voters who call themselves Democrats.

___

EDITOR'S NOTE — Charles Babington covers the presidential campaign for The Associated Press.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080826/...ntion_analysis

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Yes, we are winning. At the highest cost. War is Hell.

Maybe we are there to kill terrorist and yes for the OIL!

Even after all we've spent our economy has been strong enough to pull through it.
It it wasn't for the Banks & Mortgage Companies loaning money to people who don't
qualify for loans, and people just over extending themselves, you wouldn't be hearing about how bad the economy is.

You sound an awful lot like Carne. Your screen name is quite ironic.