Honestly, now that Obama is the nominee........

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It just amazes me that when you show someone the facts, they refuse to see them and then start talking about other people's similar culpability in an attempt to ignore the facts and that they were wrong.

The New Orleans example is a good one. Yes, Nagin and Blanco made huge errors. But, FEMA's was the worst.

What amazes me is that we AMERICANS expect a bailout. I live along the Gulf Coast and no person or government agency could begin to measure the scope of such a disaster as some of the hurricanes we've had. FEMA is not perfect, but they did and still are helping. They helped my family and friends. Are things back to normal..............NO!!!!!!!! But with time it will be.

Some people love to lay the blaim at President Bush's feet, that is insane. And so is blaming FEMA. Mistakes were made, but most people are playing the Monday morning quarterback game.

I'll stop my little rant by just saying that we should appreciate how much our citizens and Government helps.

[gldstwmn]

It's the governement's duty to rebuild the infrastructure. Had the levees not been in such a state of disrepair, things might not have been this bad. NOLA survived the hurricane. The failure of the levees is what did the town in. Bush was playing guitar at a photo op and having birthday cake while all this went down. Don't you think he ought to have had his priorities straight?

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

It's the governement's duty to rebuild the infrastructure. Had the levees not been in such a state of disrepair, things might not have been this bad. NOLA survived the hurricane. The failure of the levees is what did the town in. Bush was playing guitar at a photo op and having birthday cake while all this went down. Don't you think he ought to have had his priorities straight?

It is the LOCAL government's job to rebuild infrastructure. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS!! This is what I mean, you people don't understand basic civics of separation of federal and state functions. (shakes head in disgust)

Bush's job is to run the Federal government, not play babysitter to an incompetent governor and a negligent mayor. It is not the federal government's job to clean up local state disasters. The Federal government's job, according to the constitution, is to run the military, run the post office, and preside over matters of taxation and interstate commerce. Solving problems at a local level is not part of the federal government's duties. Bush gets all the blame, when cleaning up the city isn't even his job. The people of New Orleans were damn lucky to get anything at all from the feds.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

It is the LOCAL government's job to rebuild infrastructure. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS!! This is what I mean, you people don't understand basic civics of separation of federal and state functions. (shakes head in disgust)

Bush's job is to run the Federal government, not play babysitter to an incompetent governor and a negligent mayor. It is not the federal government's job to clean up local state disasters. The Federal government's job, according to the constitution, is to run the military, run the post office, and preside over matters of taxation and interstate commerce. Solving problems at a local level is not part of the federal government's duties. Bush gets all the blame, when cleaning up the city isn't even his job. The people of New Orleans were damn lucky to get anything at all from the feds.

I thought you might say as much. The Army Corps of Engineers is both federal and military, wouldn't you say?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

In Louisiana, the federal flood protection system in New Orleans failed in more than fifty places. Nearly every levee in metro New Orleans breached as Hurricane Katrina passed east of the city, subsequently flooding 80% of the city and many areas of neighboring parishes for weeks.

At least 1,836 people lost their lives in Hurricane Katrina and in the subsequent floods, making it the deadliest U.S. hurricane since the 1928 Okeechobee Hurricane. The storm is estimated to have been responsible for $81.2 billion (2005 U.S. dollars) in damage, making it the costliest natural disaster in U.S. history. The catastrophic failure of the flood protection in New Orleans prompted immediate review of the Army Corps of Engineers, which has, by congressional mandate, sole responsibility for design and construction of the flood protection and levee system.


Thanks for playing.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

It's the governement's duty to rebuild the infrastructure. Had the levees not been in such a state of disrepair, things might not have been this bad. NOLA survived the hurricane. The failure of the levees is what did the town in. Bush was playing guitar at a photo op and having birthday cake while all this went down. Don't you think he ought to have had his priorities straight?

The levees should have been improved, but again why blame President Bush? Weren't they under a state of disrepair under many other administrations? And what about the local government, who would know better than them?

Again I live on the coast, we never know where the hurricanes are going to hit until the last hour.

I imagine that if a very powerful earthquake were to happen in California ( I pray not) how much blame would President Bush get for that? We all are in some kind of danger zone, whether it's tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and even fires. We all make our choice where to live and I don't think our President or FEMA decides that for us.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

The levees should have been improved, but again why blame President Bush? Weren't they under a state of disrepair under many other administrations? And what about the local government, who would know better than them?

Again I live on the coast, we never know where the hurricanes are going to hit until the last hour.

I imagine that if a very powerful earthquake were to happen in California ( I pray not) how much blame would President Bush get for that? We all are in some kind of danger zone, whether it's tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and even fires. We all make our choice where to live and I don't think our President or FEMA decides that for us.

Ok so let's theoretically give the Chimp a pass on his and Brownie's lame response to Katrina .What about the 5,000 American troops who's lives he has cost in Iraqi not to mention the untold thousands of innocent civilians lives there after he mislead and duped many (but not all of us) into a war that should have never been.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Ok so let's theoretically give the Chimp a pass on his and Brownie's lame response to Katrina .What about the 5,000 American troops who's lives he has cost in Iraqi not to mention the untold thousands of innocent civilians lives there after he mislead and duped many (but not all of us) into a war that should have never been.

The chimp, what a nice name you have for our President. Most liberals like to say how dumb he is, but then at the same time he is this evil genious that duped the whole world. President Bush and the Republicans must be some kind of modern day Jedi's.

What war has not cost us greatly in troops and innocent civilians? And now that the tide has turned even Obama is changing his tune. And what bothers me most is that some Democrats actually want the war to fail just so they will have a better chance at getting into the White House.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

The chimp, what a nice name you have for our President. Most liberals like to say how dumb he is, but then at the same time he is this evil genious that duped the whole world. President Bush and the Republicans must be some kind of modern day Jedi's.

What war has not cost us greatly in troops and innocent civilians? And now that the tide has turned even Obama is changing his tune. And what bothers me most is that some Democrats actually want the war to fail just so they will have a better chance at getting into the White House.

I think W is not really an idiot. I think he is just the mouthpeice and is mostly disinterested. Look at the vast failures in his life. Every company he has touched has failed I think Cheney is the one pulling the strings and the facts mostly support that.

But, the point is W lied about the exigent threat to scare us into wanting to go to war with Iraq (yellow cake anyone) -- now our troops are dead when they did not have to be. How does that not piss you off instead of making you apparently blindly defend the man who lied and caused their deaths by spinning it to some BS about the D's wanting the US to fail.

If he were your employee and he made this huge "mistake" that cost your company its solvency and then continued to lie to you about it when you knew he was lying, would you fire him, esp. considering he never succeeded in pretty much anything else he did while working for you?

Also, if you look back a few pages, I posted some facts about how the whole Obama is changing his tune is BS made up by the press. He has been consistent.

But, I am curious, when do you think we get out of Iraq? Ignoring the rhetoric and looking at the facts -- the surge has worked pretty well. So, when is it time to declare victory (we met the goals of toppling SH and est. a "free" Iraqi Govt. years ago) -- and begin to let the Iraqi's pay for and take care of themselves -- and get our troops out? I submit that if Bush or Cheney said that exact sentence, you'd be for it

Also, where is all the Iraqi oil money that W and his administration promised us would pay for this liberation?

In the end, many people have defected from the Bush camp and told of the lies and manipulation of the American public. Many others in politics, but pretty apolitical like Greenspan, tell a similar story http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/17/iraq.oil -- then, there are the articles about W and his cronies plans for the Iraqi oil just weeks into office http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...925oilgrab.htm

Are they all incorrect and only W and Cheney are correct?

Finally, there is the whole other issue of W ignored the head of counter terrorism's direct warnings about Al-Q, not Iraq, being the threat. Then, Al-Q attacks us on 9/11 and instead of going after Bin Laden balls out -- W invades Afganistan, but, like everything elase in his ADD Presidency, drops the ball and again focuses on not just inspecting (which I and the world through the UN agreed with) -- but invading Iraq, which was then a relatively minor and mostly contained player on the world's terrorism stage by then. There was no exigent need to invade Iraq, esp. while the trail to Bin laden was still warm in Afganistan. Remember, Al-Q (the ones who attacked us) had little to no presence in Iraq until until after we invaded Iraq. These were calculated moves designed to prey on a trigger happy American public and they were wrong and have cost us dearly. Can you not see that?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

The chimp, what a nice name you have for our President. Most liberals like to say how dumb he is, but then at the same time he is this evil genious that duped the whole world.

No, that's Cheney.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

The chimp, what a nice name you have for our President.

Speak for yourself. He is not now nor has he ever beem my President.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

What amazes me is that we AMERICANS expect a bailout. I live along the Gulf Coast and no person or government agency could begin to measure the scope of such a disaster as some of the hurricanes we've had. FEMA is not perfect, but they did and still are helping. They helped my family and friends. Are things back to normal..............NO!!!!!!!! But with time it will be.

Some people love to lay the blaim at President Bush's feet, that is insane. And so is blaming FEMA. Mistakes were made, but most people are playing the Monday morning quarterback game.

I'll stop my little rant by just saying that we should appreciate how much our citizens and Government helps.

I agree with you that we are responsible for ourselves. Many of my friends helped each other with the sandbags, moving of furniture upstairs, transportation out of the city, etc. So, I think the vast majority of people did help themselves. But, and again, what is the 80 year old poor and sick woman with no family and no money to go anywhere going to do?

Having said that, government, FEMA in particular, has taken on that role. They are the ones who provide disaster relief. They did not do so in a timely manner in the case of Katrina despite advance warning. That is a proven fact - just look at that article I posted earlier that contains that quote from Michael Brown to Gov. Blanco, that was a lie - not to mention W's declaration of NOLA as a Fed. Disater Area PRIOR to the storm. Then the machinery for the photo ops only and the manipulation of Blanco by Rove -- all while people were dying and in misery. Why is not okay to fault them? I mean if FEMA could bring in the calvary when it did, why couldn't it have done it earlier with just a little preparation, despite the bad acts of Blanco and Nagin, which were many? These are legitimate questions, esp. when the head of FEMA is telling you not to worry.

As for playing the "Monday morning quarterback game" - I remember flying back from Alaska on that Sat. and seeing the storm from the plane (it was that large) -- I remember thinking along the lines of "the govt. better have their shiitte in gear for this one." Sadly, all three did not. However, that W and his cronies played politics on Louisiana (D) but not in Mississippi (R) and that it took FEMA days when it should have and could have taken hours because they were well warned (W declared it an emergency area prior to the storm ) -- speaks volumes (read that CNN article about Brown attitude and emails - - it speaks volumes and that Brown treated it as a thing to joke about) . Also, FEMA actually turned away trailers full of water from large stores like Wal Mart because they were waiting to go in en masse. How fukced up is that esp. considering the sheer amount of water available -- it would have been enough for everyone? Then, W had the effrontery to try to spin it by saying "YOU'RE DOIN A HECK OF JOB BROWNIE" when he damn well knew that was not the case. How can you defend that?

Should we be appreciative of the govt.? Yes, we should. In fact, for the most part and though some mistakes have been made, the Feds have been very efficient post Katrina. And, the actions of the Coast Guard and all the other immediate service providers in NOLA and the Gulf Coast was great. The Coast Guard began airlifting people out almost immediately -- KUDOS to them! But, not to cry foul and hold those accountable for the death and misery (even of the "human debris" as the unlearned and mostly bigoted neophyte put it) that could have been prevented with any timely action whatsoever is irresponsible. Mind you, I think if you (generally) could have gotten out and did not, you have no room to bitch about the govt. for any of you misery. In fact, I blame you for the deaths of the people you may have caused by making the Coast Guard waste time by air lifting your able body from your home. You caused that alone and you should be ashamed of yourself. So, I am not all about blaming the govt. I am just pointing out that W and his cronies made a mess of it and the R's are trying to spin it into no blame for them. For goodness sake, Michael Brown was in Baton Rouge having long lunches (unbothered by pesky phone calls) and discussing how his wardrobe read on camera apparently oblivious to the people dying or about to die less than 100 miles away. That was why he was in Louisiana in the first place

Again, I am all for blaming Blanco and Nagin as well. But the level of fraud and disconcern by W and his cronies is far more jarring.

[strandinthewind]

Pretty funny

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_113016.html

Send a JibJab Sendables® eCard Today!