Just Skimmed Through STORMS

[danax6]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

In the end, she was there and it is her story to tell - just like FM tells that same story.

Now - whether the stuff she says is true - who knows. But, I know this, if she had lied in any significant way, FM's people, esp. La Nicks' people, would crush her to death. Look at how La Nicks' herself openly said she
d "bury" Mick if he libeled her in his book.

Yes, and you know, the thing is, there is hardly anything shocking in it, so my guess is that it definitely went through a few lawyers' hands first. There are some funny anecdotes, but all the drug/party/other excesses stories were all things everybody already knew about. I just have trouble believing all the little details she presents, because there are far too many inaccuracies throughout the book that make it hard for me to take the rest as gospel truth also. For starters, I doubt the accuracy of all the conversations she brings up. Unless she recorded every single one and they are on tape somewhere, it's quite hard to believe she remembered every single word that was said 30 years ago. So that encourages my belief that a lot of stuff was exaggerated and/or embellished, which goes hand in hand with all the over the top romantic and dramatic parts. Like she rewrote a few dialogues to fit them into her 19th century romance novel.

[strandinthewind]

^^

I agree - much of it likely is hyperbole - or, as Mark Twain would say, the "truth with some stretchers"

I do think, however, how she presents herself in the book is most telling.

I also find it telling that she includes so much of La Nicks in it. I get that La Nicks was a force majeure in the story, but I have to wonder how it would have sold if she limited the comments on La Nicks. In other words, she seems in many excerpts to agree that La Nicks was the center around which all revolved. I have not read the whole thing though - so maybe that is a false perception.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I also find it telling that she includes so much of La Nicks in it. I get that La Nicks was a force majeure in the story, but I have to wonder how it would have sold if she limited the comments on La Nicks. In other words, she seems in many excerpts to agree that La Nicks was the center around which all revolved. I have not read the whole thing though - so maybe that is a false perception.

I actually found it to be the other way around. Yes, there is a lot of Stevie in it, but she seems to dismiss everything out of hand concerning her. Like she was the smallest blip on the radar ever. She says Lindsey didn't give a rat's ass about her at all, except when he had to deal with her on a professional level. She speaks about some incidents in great detail, she elaborates on what a few of his songs are about, as long as she thinks they are about her. But then she completely evades why Lindsey had those aggressive outbursts, even when it's obvious they coincide with what was going on with Stevie at the time, and she also does not speak about the songs that are definitely not about her. She does not bring up anything personal between Stevie and Lindsey, even though she keeps bringing up the triangle she is stuck in. To me it didn't seem all that tough, and I know it had to have been tougher. She also speaks in great lengths about the bizarreness between Lindsey and Stevie that went on in Australia and New Zealand during the Tusk tour, but she doesn't breathe one word about why they were like that or what was going on between them. She keeps bringing the subject back to her, as if Stevie didn't even matter when obviously she played a big part in some of those major events. In fact, I find her stuff about Stevie, at least the parts where she says she thought of her as this 'beautiful rock and roll goddess' and how she wanted to be friends with her completely forced, because she doesn't resist any chance to make her look like a fool, or to one up her. It's very conflicting.

At the end it had gotten so bad that I almost expected her to say that Lindsey asked "What do you want, you blubbering fool?" when Stevie called his house, sobbing, right after Robin died. Because throughout the entire book that was the tone. It was the only moment in those 7 years where he seemed almost normal.

[camchristo]

Originally Posted by danax6

I actually found it to be the other way around. Yes, there is a lot of Stevie in it, but she seems to dismiss everything out of hand concerning her. Like she was the smallest blip on the radar ever. She says Lindsey didn't give a rat's ass about her at all, except when he had to deal with her on a professional level. She speaks about some incidents in great detail, she elaborates on what a few of his songs are about, as long as she thinks they are about her. But then she completely evades why Lindsey had those aggressive outbursts, even when it's obvious they coincide with what was going on with Stevie at the time, and she also does not speak about the songs that are definitely not about her. She does not bring up anything personal between Stevie and Lindsey, even though she keeps bringing up the triangle she is stuck in. To me it didn't seem all that tough, and I know it had to have been tougher. She also speaks in great lengths about the bizarreness between Lindsey and Stevie that went on in Australia and New Zealand during the Tusk tour, but she doesn't breathe one word about why they were like that or what was going on between them. She keeps bringing the subject back to her, as if Stevie didn't even matter when obviously she played a big part in some of those major events. In fact, I find her stuff about Stevie, at least the parts where she says she thought of her as this 'beautiful rock and roll goddess' and how she wanted to be friends with her completely forced, because she doesn't resist any chance to make her look like a fool, or to one up her. It's very conflicting.

At the end it had gotten so bad that I almost expected her to say that Lindsey asked "What do you want, you blubbering fool?" when Stevie called his house, sobbing, right after Robin died. Because throughout the entire book that was the tone. It was the only moment in those 7 years where he seemed almost normal.

Hey, I haven't read the book yet, waiting for it to get here from Amazon. I'm just curious though, since I have no knowledge of this. What was going on with Stevie that cause LB to freak at various times? Also, what when down in Australia and New Zealand with them during Tusk?

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by camchristo

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

she is The Vanessa. no one knows where her information comes from. she is just ... The Vanessa.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by carrie721

she is The Vanessa. no one knows where her information comes from. she is just ... The Vanessa.

bitch.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by camchristo

Hey, I haven't read the book yet, waiting for it to get here from Amazon. I'm just curious though, since I have no knowledge of this. What was going on with Stevie that cause LB to freak at various times? Also, what when down in Australia and New Zealand with them during Tusk?

****, you're quoting two-week old posts. Now I have to think long and hard about what the **** I was talking about again. I'm at work so I don't have the book handy to verify some of the things I am trying to remember. One of the things that struck me as odd was that CAH specifically mentions that while Lindsey was writing songs like Not That Funny he became a little more aggressive, sexually and I guess in general. She elaborates on what the songs are about when she thinks they are about her, like Save Me A Place, but then completely dismisses why Lindsey was behaving the way he was when writing those others songs. We all know the timeline coincides with Stevie and Mick doing the hanky panky and everyone being aware of it, but according to CAH he was indifferent, didn't care at all, that he probably didn't even notice. It's been said by at least 3 different people that Mick sat down at Lindsey's kitchen table at one point and told him about the affair, yet CAH never brings this up either. Where did she suppose those songs came from?

As for Oz and New Zealand. It was blatantly obvious something was going on between Lindsey and Stevie, but CAH only talks about the kicking incident on stage. This was all right around the time that Stevie apparantly went ape-**** on CAH and said that it would be a cold day in hell before she'd let Carol marry Lindsey. Then when Lindsey gets aggressive with CAH, she only talks about herself, what her role was in all of it, and she wonders if she did anything wrong to deserve it. To the reader, it's obvious Lindsey's demons coming out had to do with whatever was going on with Stevie, but once again CAH pretends that she doesn't exist, plays an insignificant part in the 'triangle'. She keeps saying Lindsey was indifferent towards Stevie. Well, obviously he wasn't, but what made him lash out like that?

These are all just things that make it clear to me that CAH turned the story into a certain direction, one that is at the least very one-sided. Which I guess was to be expected, considering this is her book, but it just annoys me because I feel like I am missing huge chunks of the story. Chunks that she left out deliberately and that for me makes it hard to take her book seriously.

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

I'm in Fleetwood Mac College.

Nah, my mind just really has an endless capacity for useless information. It's scary.

[camchristo]

Originally Posted by danax6

****, you're quoting two-week old posts. Now I have to think long and hard about what the **** I was talking about again. I'm at work so I don't have the book handy to verify some of the things I am trying to remember. One of the things that struck me as odd was that CAH specifically mentions that while Lindsey was writing songs like Not That Funny he became a little more aggressive, sexually and I guess in general. She elaborates on what the songs are about when she thinks they are about her, like Save Me A Place, but then completely dismisses why Lindsey was behaving the way he was when writing those others songs. We all know the timeline coincides with Stevie and Mick doing the hanky panky and everyone being aware of it, but according to CAH he was indifferent, didn't care at all, that he probably didn't even notice. It's been said by at least 3 different people that Mick sat down at Lindsey's kitchen table at one point and told him about the affair, yet CAH never brings this up either. Where did she suppose those songs came from?

As for Oz and New Zealand. It was blatantly obvious something was going on between Lindsey and Stevie, but CAH only talks about the kicking incident on stage. This was all right around the time that Stevie apparantly went ape-**** on CAH and said that it would be a cold day in hell before she'd let Carol marry Lindsey. Then when Lindsey gets aggressive with CAH, she only talks about herself, what her role was in all of it, and she wonders if she did anything wrong to deserve it. To the reader, it's obvious Lindsey's demons coming out had to do with whatever was going on with Stevie, but once again CAH pretends that she doesn't exist, plays an insignificant part in the 'triangle'. She keeps saying Lindsey was indifferent towards Stevie. Well, obviously he wasn't, but what made him lash out like that?

These are all just things that make it clear to me that CAH turned the story into a certain direction, one that is at the least very one-sided. Which I guess was to be expected, considering this is her book, but it just annoys me because I feel like I am missing huge chunks of the story. Chunks that she left out deliberately and that for me makes it hard to take her book seriously.

I'm in Fleetwood Mac College.

Nah, my mind just really has an endless capacity for useless information. It's scary.

Thanks for the info. I really like to read your posts because you really seem to have a lot of knowledge. I like to chat about FM/Stevie/LB and could do so for hours on end. However, your expanse of info is way greater than mine. Maybe we can chat on AIM and I can ask you some questions about various things I've been wondering about.

[trackaghost]

It's weird re-reading this thread and seeing all the hostility towards Carol Ann. Sure there are inaccuracies (not surprising considering the amount of drugs everyone in the FM inner circle were doing) and she definitely paints herself as this innocent, Alice In Wonderland character, which is certainly an exaggeration and sometimes slightly nauseating but the book is a great read and all the backstage stuff is some of the best I've ever read. I think it gives a much better insight into the crazy world that the Mac lived in during their hey day than Mick did in his book.

Also people seem to be annoyed that CAH doesn't recognise Stevie as being Lindsey's great love, but firstly, they had been broken up for a year when Carol Ann and Lindsey got together and had even been dating other people, and secondly, I can't imagine Lindsey would have ever told her if he still had feelings about Stevie, or maybe she just didn't want to believe it? I know I wouldn't if I were her.
Lastly, people seem to want to dismiss Carol being one of Lindsey's great love (to put it in a Stevie way), but he was with her for eight years, living with her for most of that time. That's a pretty significant relationship for anyone.

Originally Posted by danax6

We all know the timeline coincides with Stevie and Mick doing the hanky panky and everyone being aware of it, but according to CAH he was indifferent, didn't care at all, that he probably didn't even notice. It's been said by at least 3 different people that Mick sat down at Lindsey's kitchen table at one point and told him about the affair, yet CAH never brings this up either. Where did she suppose those songs came from?

You know, even though she says that she never found out exactly when Lindsey found out about the Mick/Stevie affair, didn't his first act of violence towards her happen around this time? He came home early from the studio and attacked her. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that may have been the day when Mick told him. At least that's what when through my head.

Originally Posted by danax6

As for Oz and New Zealand. It was blatantly obvious something was going on between Lindsey and Stevie, but CAH only talks about the kicking incident on stage. This was all right around the time that Stevie apparently went ape-**** on CAH and said that it would be a cold day in hell before she'd let Carol marry Lindsey. Then when Lindsey gets aggressive with CAH, she only talks about herself, what her role was in all of it, and she wonders if she did anything wrong to deserve it. To the reader, it's obvious Lindsey's demons coming out had to do with whatever was going on with Stevie, but once again CAH pretends that she doesn't exist, plays an insignificant part in the 'triangle'. She keeps saying Lindsey was indifferent towards Stevie. Well, obviously he wasn't, but what made him lash out like that?

These are all just things that make it clear to me that CAH turned the story into a certain direction, one that is at the least very one-sided. Which I guess was to be expected, considering this is her book, but it just annoys me because I feel like I am missing huge chunks of the story. Chunks that she left out deliberately and that for me makes it hard to take her book seriously.

I'm in Fleetwood Mac College.

Nah, my mind just really has an endless capacity for useless information. It's scary.

I immediately thought that Stevie's reaction towards Carol in NZ was due to the fact something had been going on between her and Lindsey, but I have to say maybe Carol really believed there was nothing between them. Obviously he wasn't divulging any of his feelings or infidelities to her.

I really enjoyed this book, I did feel certain things were left out, maybe due to legal reasons things had to be taken out or maybe it was just the writer's prerogative, but most things I believed her. The one thing I did doubt her on though was the Dennis Wilson affair. She denied it ever happened and Lindsey believed her. Then he went ape-**** after listening to those tapes she and Sara made. Nothing was on them she claims, but Lindsey's reaction sounded like her heard her confessing to something more. Obviously I'm speculating here, but that's what ran through my mind. It's funny that years later Lindsey would change his mind and claim she did have an affair with Wilson.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

You know, even though she says that she never found out exactly when Lindsey found out about the Mick/Stevie affair, didn't his first act of violence towards her happen around this time? He came home early from the studio and attacked her. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that may have been the day when Mick told him. At least that's what when through my head.

Exactly my point.

I immediately thought that Stevie's reaction towards Carol in NZ was due to the fact something had been going on between her and Lindsey, but I have to say maybe Carol really believed there was nothing between them. Obviously he wasn't divulging any of his feelings or infidelities to her.

If so, then she was even more naive than I thought. That, or she just didn't want to see it. The connection is blatantly obvious.

[michelej1]

[QUOTE=trackaghost;713766]

Lastly, people seem to want to dismiss Carol being one of Lindsey's great love (to put it in a Stevie way), but he was with her for eight years, living with her for most of that time. That's a pretty significant relationship for anyone. QUOTE]

And an incredibly significant relationship for Lindsey who seems to be extremely monogamous. She says that all of Go Insane except D. W. Suite (I guess) was about her and I believe her because Lindsey has pretty much made that clear since the album came out and both Richard and Jeff described how happy the 2 of them were at the beginning in Rolling Stone. I couldn't help but accept that Carol is one of Lindsey's great loves and great heartbreaks.

As for Stevie, the way the book is written, I don't really think Carol is unaware of any less than hostile dynamics between Lindsey and Stevie. I think she's deliberately omitting them. I'm not even talking about them being lovers, because I'm not convinced they were. I just mean they had some friendly moments. I just think it's strange that she skips over those completely. The most obvious time being the phone call about Robin. Of course you leave some things out of a book, but when you consistently leave the SAME type of thing out throughout, that says something.

Or I think of the description of the way the band didn't visit Lindsey when he was in the hospital. That may be true, but I can't believe they were totally insensitive to his condition. Just from the concert footage I saw, both Stevie and Christine seemed to be very caring towards Lindsey as he exited the stage -- in rather a daze. I don't think everyone was always as hardnosed and callous as the book depicts.

Anyway, my favorite moment in the whole book is when she says she told Stevie that John Wayne was born on May 26 too. I really can actually see Stevie's reaction to that comment in my head. That was hilarious.

Michele

[Dreamz19]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Also people seem to be annoyed that CAH doesn't recognise Stevie as being Lindsey's great love, but firstly, they had been broken up for a year when Carol Ann and Lindsey got together and had even been dating other people, and secondly, I can't imagine Lindsey would have ever told her if he still had feelings about Stevie, or maybe she just didn't want to believe it? I know I wouldn't if I were her.


I immediately thought that Stevie's reaction towards Carol in NZ was due to the fact something had been going on between her and Lindsey, but I have to say maybe Carol really believed there was nothing between them. Obviously he wasn't divulging any of his feelings or infidelities to her.

I would never expect her to say that Stevie was Lindsey's great love. At the same time I thought it was really silly to think Stevie wasn't that important to Lindsey. Even if he never told her (which I also wouldn't expect him to do), his songs and attitude towards Stevie should have told her. I took it as though she still feels that way after all these years. Perhaps she was strictly writing about how she felt then (which I can understand better).

As far as them being broken up for a year, something is off with that as well. Carol Ann says she and Lindsey got together Feb 1977. However, Stevie had a journal entry dated Aug 24,1977 saying she has come to the conclusion that she and Lindsey are finally over and that it was sad to see a good love go bad. (Something along those lines). Either Carol Ann's dates are off or something was still going in with Stevie and Lindsey behind the scenes.

I also agree 100% about that NZ incident. Earlier in the book she mentions how nice Stevie was to her when she was with Mick. Then all of a sudden when Carol Ann's comes back on tour Stevie is upset to see her and reacts the way she does. That should have told Carol something. Either she was really stupid or she was still desperately trying to believe nothing was going on.

Originally Posted by danax6

The way she described the interaction between herself and Stevie most of the time reminded me of kindergarten. CAH acts like it was a constant competition between the two, but in the meantime all she really wants is to be friends with Stevie. You mentioned the tattletaling she did on several occasions, but there also instances like during the awards season, when CAH was over the moon because according to her all eyes went to her when she walked into the room, instead of to Stevie, who could usually wear a trash bag and people still noticed her because she was always very present. CAH was the better dressed one that evening and she was gloating.

Then she also describes Lindsey's behaviour of mocking Stevie on stage as funny. To me that doesn't sound like someone who really respects a person and wants nothing more than to be her friend. She constantly keeps bringing up the fact that she can't compete with Stevie. I find that combined with her running off to Lindsey every time Stevie does something a tad disturbing. Especially when she then brings up that sometimes she and Lindsey would slip into the little girl/daddy roles.

That went on a lot in the book. It all just seemed really petty. Personally, if my Bf still had some hostility and issues with his ex I would be worried. Indifference would show he truly didn't care. She really doesn't miss a beat to diss Stevie though. Seemed like Stevie was always jealous of her. Like if the entire band was assumed at something Carol did, Stevie would just sit there with a blank expression. She also talks about Stevie's "tasteless" marriage and how she and Lindsey were horrified about it.

There was two incidents I thought that was funny. The first was when she said that she and Lindsey couldn't believe Stevie would wear a long white dress to John and Julie's wedding. Someone mentioned only Stevie would try and upstage the bride. Then she mentions how she and Sara couldn't stop laughing at Stevie when she told Sara to stop dressing nice at the studio. Apparently, she was very jealous of her looking good for Mick. If Stevie did do something of the things she claims I dunno if I could blame Carol for the disses completely.

[Dreamz19]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

It's weird re-reading this thread and seeing all the hostility towards Carol Ann.

Not saying you're talking about me, but for the record I have no hostility towards Carol Ann at all. I really liked her book and thought it was very interesting. In fact I wish she had talked a little more about her family life and a little about her life after FM. There were just somethings that were annoying to me. She just came across as really naive and super innocent at times. Even after years of living in Hollywood and with Lindsey.

[BTFLCHLD]

Stevie began to weep, clutching the sheer white chiffon with the delicacy of her fingers, "oh no Lindsey...not her! We had a love that was young and innocent brought together through a song."

In the past, being privy to this spectacle would have been something of a high point in my calendar, but it only weighed heavy on my mind. I thought that perhaps if I was here, I might chance to hear them.

Over the months I had built up a rich story of him and her in my mind. He with the nimble fingers, bright eyes and wayward smile. Her melancholy from too long trapped behind those walls. I imagined her to be his serving maid, perhaps working to please him and he singing at sundown to help her rest.

Lindsey closed his eyes, hoping that I might be nearby to hear him. His sensitive ears picked up the sound of movement, and as the last note faded from her lips, he opened his eyes and glanced towards me. My dress shimmering in the torchlight.

"Carol, I thank you for this night" as he tossed a NIN guitar pick towards me.

I tried to pluck from the air as it spun three now four times. My heart pounded against my ribs. Bowing, Stevie retreated into the gathering crowd, finding some safe shadow from which she might once again look up upon Lindsey.

"So this is love?" Stevie thought, as she vanished back into the darkness of the doorway. I had not imagined that it would strike her so cruelly, that the thought of me would inspire so much pain.

The dead could not be more distant than this lady to him. The pick was warm from his fingers, and I pressed it to my lips for a second. No, it was 30 seconds of that I am sure.

[Boots]

Wait - is that post above an excerpt from the book? (I haven't gotten to that part yet). (On edit: AHHH!!! The post above twas fiction. Thank GOD! But I get it. This is pretty close to Harris' style).

So far, I find the book tedious with detailed quotes and overly fleshed out scenes. How can anyone remember all that crap from 30 years ago? And the fact that she was so young. I look back on when I was that age, and realize that what I thought was reality, was really just my own perception of the scenes going on in my life at the time.

Right now, I'm up to the part where he's in Washington DC (i think) and he's dieing of horrible pain from the spinal tap he got in another city. Carol is freaking out, thinking that he'll die from his next seizure. Meanwhile, Stevie is nowhere to be found - deattached - unconcerned about Lindsey's health. We get one moment when Stevie runs into Carol after the grand mal incident - the only time Stevie appeared or reacted to Lindsey's attack - and proceeded to tell her a story about her dog - who had some kind of seizure, and Stevie totally understood how Carol felt because she was freaking out that she couldn't do anything - to which Carol laughed behind her back, relayed the convo to Lindsey - who also laughed...blah blah blah.

Now - I do believe that Stevie showed Carol her sympathy by telling her the dog story. Stevie seems a bit flakey like that - but really? She didn't care or seem concerned in the least? Never came by the hotel room with the others? Really, Carol - she was cold like that?

Anyway - I just think her writing is superfluous. I find myself reading the meat of a paragraph, and when she begins to ramble (as I am doing now), I skim the page.