How much is that doggy in the window?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by skcin

. . . in some warm exotic gay beachy way.

I have come to make you better - I have come to take you away

Also:

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by sasja

I agree. For all the animals out there on Death Row, whose only crime was that they merely came into existence, breeders and their outrageously priced products are minimizing their slim chances of survival.

It makes me weep.

If I were ruler of the world I would force all breeders to mandatorily work for one WHOLE year in a shelter, and be the ones actually transporting the condemned dogs and cats to their execution.

I have a feeling there'd be a lot less breeders and a lot less overflowing animal shelters then.

Sasja

I have adopted several of my past/present cats from no-kill shelters in OKC such as "Pets & People" (Great group by the way). By 2008 the OKC City Shelter is planning to also be a "no kill" shelter.

Strangely, we adopted "Woodchuck" (Her real name is 'Shioban', but since she stands on her back legs and beg she looks like a woodchuck/prairie dog, thus the name) from a shelter...Which was odd since she is a full blooded Scottish Fold (A bi-fold) with those pesky folded 'dog ears'. She has "pure white" color with the biggest "ice blue" colored eyes I have ever seen on a pet.

I do believe she was someone's showcat who was lost during the 2003 tornados in Moore, OK. Not long after the tornados is when she was found by the shelter workers (She was already spaded when discovered.). She just shows hints that she was a showcat by the maneurisms that she has. We have to physically do the cleaning on "Woodchuck" since she will not clean herself. In the 3 years we have owned her, she has never cleaned herself one single time....the "Human Slaves" have to. She loves her hair-brush (If I dont brush her hair daily, it clumps up into dreadlocks) and her pet-taxi (She doesnt love baths....once the weather warms she will get the big bath yet again)

Btw, all my adult males are fixed, and Missy & the 'Chuck are fixed...Patches the Crack-Ho Calico is next on the spaded list.

(Edit: Here's a link to my ol' "Feline Hall of Shame", which features some of the cats we adopted, including the much-loved/missed "Ace", RIP "Capt.Canuck")

http://community-1.webtv.net/estrang...ame/index.html

[skcin]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I showed both of my dogs and they are champions.

I bought them from a reputable breeder for the following reasons:

1. She can trace the family trees back to like 1990.

2. She breeds for quality and health - not appearance.

3. Dogs from puppy mills are very prone to illness and defects because they are bred to anything without care or regard to heath and quality.

As for the AKC, it is important, but it in no way assures the dogs are bred for quality or health.

I think all dogs should be fixed if they are not to breed and I think it is important to consider the pound dogs first. Having said that, many dogs from rescues and pounds have problems (physical and emotional) -- so they are not for everyone, etc.

Finally, my Scotties new puppies will likely go for $2,000 a puppy.

I knew you'd come through for me.


1. Great - but who cares?

2. But there's still no guarantee that a dog will be fine, with no health problems. I have a good friend who bought 2 Boxer pups from a reputable breeder and one of them has cost her over $3000 in vet bills in the 2 years she's had them.

I know you love your dogs, and they are beautiful. But they're show dogs, and you paid the price for it. That's fine. But for someone who wants a pet for their kids? I don't get the need to spend all that money just to say "oh, he's purebred."

And btw, most rescue dogs do not have emotional/behavioral problems - often times it's the previous owner's that had the problem. Many people decide too hastily on a dog & dump them when they can't handle it. For example, if you live alone & work 12 hour days, a puppy is not the best dog for you. But people don't think, they just want something & buy it. A dog is not a possession.

The rescue we used closely monitors each dog when they come into rescue. They take them to the vet, update their vaccines, treat any illnesses they may have, and monitor their behaviors. They determine whether the dog is good with other dogs, cats, kids, etc. They also provide the dog's history openly & honestly, letting you know why they're in rescue (it's usually that people move, or die, or have kids, or can't afford the dog anymore.)

As for pound/SPCA dogs, it is taking more of a chance. But I agree with you that this option should be considered first. Side note - all my pets are fixed.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

The shelter was very open with me about Clancy's issues - and they mostly stemmed from her previous owner and then the fact that she was abandoned after a lifetime with that owner.

Clancy used to run away a lot - the minute she was off a leash she'd bolt, her health was not great - her coat was dull...she was depressed and anxious.

Now? She NEVER runs away, I can keep her off leash and she follows me everywhere...she's a deeper red and is so soft and shiny now, she still gets anxious from time to time (when she sees boxes or suitcases mostly) but overall she just needed a lot of love and she is now the perfect dog for me...and considering she was 9 when I got her from the shelter I've spent very little money on her vet bills....

My Clancy experience has forever sold me on getting animals from shelters

[michelle2677]

well. I did buy both of my shetland sheepdogs from places other than shelters. Murray was $600 and Max was $450 (and $500 too much..they should have paid ME to take him ) but before I got max there was a three legged dog at the vets office who someone dropped off after he got hit. I wanted him sooooooooooo bad (I have a soft spot for 3 legged dogs) but I knew the vet wouldn't have put all that time and expense into saving him just to put him down.

With that said, when I got max, I wanted to get one from a sheltie shelter ( ) but the closest one (I found) was in texas or california, and they wouldn't let me take them out of the state. wtf? So I did try.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by skcin

I knew you'd come through for me.


1. Great - but who cares?

2. But there's still no guarantee that a dog will be fine, with no health problems. I have a good friend who bought 2 Boxer pups from a reputable breeder and one of them has cost her over $3000 in vet bills in the 2 years she's had them.

I know you love your dogs, and they are beautiful. But they're show dogs, and you paid the price for it. That's fine. But for someone who wants a pet for their kids? I don't get the need to spend all that money just to say "oh, he's purebred."

And btw, most rescue dogs do not have emotional/behavioral problems - often times it's the previous owner's that had the problem. Many people decide too hastily on a dog & dump them when they can't handle it. For example, if you live alone & work 12 hour days, a puppy is not the best dog for you. But people don't think, they just want something & buy it. A dog is not a possession.

The rescue we used closely monitors each dog when they come into rescue. They take them to the vet, update their vaccines, treat any illnesses they may have, and monitor their behaviors. They determine whether the dog is good with other dogs, cats, kids, etc. They also provide the dog's history openly & honestly, letting you know why they're in rescue (it's usually that people move, or die, or have kids, or can't afford the dog anymore.)

As for pound/SPCA dogs, it is taking more of a chance. But I agree with you that this option should be considered first. Side note - all my pets are fixed.

I agree that purebred is not always the same thing as quality. For example, the reason tracing the family trees is important is because Scotties can pass down a disease that causes cramping and it can skip generations. If you know the lineage, history, etc. - you can breed cramp out of the dogs.

As for the shelters and rescue - certainly not all of the dogs are that way. I have seen the situation you describe. But, I have also seen horrfic things I cannot even tell you and those dogs often get placed with very patient and willing people, who are saints IMO.

Regarding Boxers, they have bred that breed into almost insanity and all for the sake of producing more show quality features and at the expense of health concerns. Dobermans are another example. Narrow hips are the deal in a show so that is what many breeders breed to and it hinders the ability to move and they break more easily. To me, that is insane and those breeders are not who you want to buy a dog from. And, the point of dog shows historically is that you are presenting you best in an attempt to breed. Sadly, that notion is long gone in most instances.

In the end, people should get what they want and if someone wants to pay more for a dog, who am I to keep them down

sasja - Interestingly, almost every quality breeder I know has worked in a shelter and/or with the various rescues. I think the problem is not with the breeders, but with the little to no effort to fix the strays out there and with people who do not fix their animal and suddenly its pregnant.

[strandinthewind]

For those interested, here are some sites on puppy mills:

http://www.nopuppymills.com/

http://www.stoppuppymills.org/

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...lls/index.html

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer...lty_puppymills

The people who run these are pathetic.

Here is the ASPCA's position on responsible breeding:

Responsible Breeding Position Statement Background
Responsible breeders are individuals who have focused their efforts on one or a select few breeds and through breeding, historical research and ongoing study, mentoring relationships, club memberships, showing, raising and training of these breeds have become experts in the breed’s health, heritable conditions, temperament and behavior. Responsible breeders are well suited to educate and screen potential buyers/adopters and provide follow-up support after purchase or adoption. Responsible breeders take lifetime responsibility for the animals they have bred.

ASPCA Position
The ASPCA advocates the following best practices for responsible breeders:

- Never sells puppies to a dealer or pet shop.

- Screens breeding stock for heritable diseases and removes affected animals from breeding program. Affected animals are altered; may be placed as pets as long as health issues are disclosed to buyers/adopters.

- Removes aggressive animals from breeding program; alters or euthanizes them.

- Keeps breeding stock healthy and well socialized.

- Never keeps more dogs than they can provide with the highest level of care, including quality food, clean water, proper shelter from heat or cold, exercise, socialization and professional veterinary care.

- Has working knowledge of genetics and generally avoids inbreeding.

- Bases breeding frequency on mother’s health, age, condition and recuperative abilities.

- Does not breed extremely young or old animals.

- Often breeds and rears dogs in the home, where they are considered part of the family.

- Ensures neonates are kept clean, warm, fed, vetted and with the mother until weaned; begins socialization of neonates at three weeks of age.

- Screens potential guardians; discusses positive and negative aspects of animal/breed.

- Ensures animals are weaned (eight to ten weeks of age for dogs and cats) before placement.

- Offers guidance and support to new guardians.

- Provides an adoption/purchase contract in plain English that spells out breeder’s responsibilities, adopter’s responsibilities, health guarantees and return policy.

- Provides accurate and reliable health, vaccination and pedigree information.

- Makes sure pet-quality animals are sold on a limited registration (dogs only), spay/neuter contract, or are altered before placement.

- Will take back any animal of their breeding, at any time and for any reason.

[BlackWidow]

Our second dog is a rescue...

[Lisa1769]

Originally Posted by michelle2677

they wouldn't let me take them out of the state. wtf? So I did try.

My Moms friend and her husband had a cat for several years. It was spoiled rotten. A few years after the cat died, they decided to get another one from a shelter. They had to fill out paperwork and answer some questions, yada yada yada. They were denied because they said they would let the cat out, if it wanted to go outside. That is absurd to me!

[goldie]

If I had my choice, I probably would have did a rescue, and I completely agree with the views on rescue vs. breeder ... but hubby ruled out on this one. Plus he (we?, gulp!) wanted a specific color, gender of pup ... blah blah blah. So, having said that, we bought both our dachshunds from breeders ...$600 each with papers and all that good stuff.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by Lisa1769

My Moms friend and her husband had a cat for several years. It was spoiled rotten. A few years after the cat died, they decided to get another one from a shelter. They had to fill out paperwork and answer some questions, yada yada yada. They were denied because they said they would let the cat out, if it wanted to go outside. That is absurd to me!

Most shelters don't want people to have outdoor cats if they live in cities or suburbs, I think because of the increased risk of getting injured or hurt if hit by a car.

For the record, I don't think you guys suck for buying from breeders. It's def. a personal choice. I just think it's sad that there are so many homeless animals, that's all.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by goldie

If I had my choice, I probably would have did a rescue, and I completely agree with the views on rescue vs. breeder ... but hubby ruled out on this one. Plus he (we?, gulp!) wanted a specific color, gender of pup ... blah blah blah. So, having said that, we bought both our dachshunds from breeders ...$600 each with papers and all that good stuff.

ADORABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by goldie

If I had my choice, I probably would have did a rescue, and I completely agree with the views on rescue vs. breeder ... but hubby ruled out on this one. Plus he (we?, gulp!) wanted a specific color, gender of pup ... blah blah blah. So, having said that, we bought both our dachshunds from breeders ...$600 each with papers and all that good stuff.

^^^^^ CUTE!!!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by skcin

. . . For the record, I don't think you guys suck for buying from breeders. It's def. a personal choice. I just think it's sad that there are so many homeless animals, that's all.

I know what you meant

I think the AKC or one of those organizations teeters of fixing almost all animals when they are born or something like that. That is a little extreme, but, I am all for the state or private organizations paying to fix any dog or cat whose owners would like to fix them but cannot afford it. I am also all for the state or private organizations fixing any animal they find on the streets. The problem is severer than most think and it really is almost like an epidemic. It also is very, very sad because animals cannot really fend for themselves in the city.

[ryan8472]

All of my pets have been adopted.