Rosie's ching-chong comments

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Wasn't just me

Interestingly, you seemingly assign no fault to Israel, though they certainly have misbehaved, to say the least.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/isr-index-eng

no, wrong again.

you commented that it would be nice if Israel didnt engage in terrorist acts either and I said "yes, of course"
I can see that it takes two to tango. But I also consider Israel to be defending itself by and large whereas the PLO, Hamas etc are being funded by Arab fundies who are actively encouraging attacks on Israel. Israel DOES have a right to defend itself.

and maybe it wasnt just you, but if you folks would accept my clarifications instead of accusing me of backpedaling you'd see I was trying to correct your misinterpretations. Sheesh!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

no, wrong again.

you commented that it would be nice if Israel didnt engage in terrorist acts either and I said "yes, of course"
I can see that it takes two to tango. But I also consider Israel to be defending itself by and large whereas the PLO, Hamas etc are being funded by Arab fundies who are actively encouraging attacks on Israel. Israel DOES have a right to defend itself . . .

You really think the other parties are not defending themselves? After all, their land was taken and then more land was taken. Wouldn't you be a little pissed off too?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

They were not "misinterpretations." They were what you said outright. Thus, you may have clarified, but to say I or anyone else misinterpreted is just wrong.

a) you DID misinterpret and I tried to correct your misinterpretation. I cant see how "that is the one area where I deviate from my usual Liberal leanings and Im not the person you should ask because you wouldnt like my answer" becomes "I hate ALL Muslims" or that I think Muslims need to be locked up in concentration camps. I never said that anywhere. ANYWHERE.
so, YES you did misinterpret. When I said "I hope I never have to say "I told you so" I was referring to my visions of an impending apocalypse between Christian/Muslim. Ive said that over and over and over yet you seem to want to cling to YOUR interpretation of my original statement in spite of ALL MY EFFORTS to show you different. Only I know what I meant, and Im not shy about speaking my mind, if I meant something a certain way, I'd certainly SAY so.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

You really think the other parties are not defending themselves? After all, their land was taken and then more land was taken. Wouldn't you be a little pissed off too?

b) Israel was created with the help of the British Govt and Sanctioned by the UN and various Western Countries. They gained more land in the 6 days war when they went on the offensive against Syria and Egypt who were planning to attack them. Prior to the Arab occupation of Jerusalem and Palestine, that was Hebrew land, their historic holy city. Arabs capured it and occupied it for about 1300 years, thus they think it belongs to them. One could see their point. I happen to believe the Hebrews/Jews have the prior claim, and in my opinion, the creation of Israel was a step toward rectifying that situation.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . you'd see I was trying to correct your misinterpretations. Sheesh!

They were not "misinterpretations." They were what you said outright. Thus, you may have clarified, but to say I or anyone else misinterpreted is just wrong.

[elie]

@ Rickypt - since you asked yesterday and I didn't see your post on time:
Greek is my mother tongue. I live in Athens. That is why (time difference) I never get to post on this board at the same hours as everybody

As to the rest of the conversation, I wonder about those alleged misinterpretations myself. I didnt think there were any. Sorry to interfere agian, but I think that everybody's point is made very clearly.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by elie

As to the rest of the conversation, I wonder about those alleged misinterpretations myself. I didnt think there were any. Sorry to interfere agian, but I think that everybody's point is made very clearly.

I made mine clearly too.
please see above.

[elie]

I don't think that history is so easy to explain (as in your above post). It is never easy to decide "who has a prior claim". You may express your opinion in a conversation and that's about it. Your opinion and its expression (not only yours, I mean everybody's) have very little to do with the truth or (what's even worse) with "right" and "wrong"Not to mention that there is no actual 'truth" when it comes to history and politics, but whatever.
So, to your previous post, someone could argue (not me, but whatev.) that who cares who lived there 2000 years ago, the Jews went there after WWII and kicked the Arabs out. At least that's what I hear from people who dislike the Jews. So there you go.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by elie

I don't think that history is so easy to explain (as in your above post). It is never easy to decide "who has a prior claim". You may express your opinion in a conversation and that's about it. Your opinion and its expression (not only yours, I mean everybody's) have very little to do with the truth or (what's even worse) with "right" and "wrong"Not to mention that there is no actual 'truth" when it comes to history and politics, but whatever.
So, to your previous post, someone could argue (not me, but whatev.) that who cares who lived there 2000 years ago, the Jews went there after WWII and kicked the Arabs out. At least that's what I hear from people who dislike the Jews. So there you go.

yes. agreed. Im not saying the current Palestinians dont have a valid point, however, the history of the Holy Land is pretty well documented for at least the past 2000 years, and even if History is written by the victor (as they say!) it is the History that has been generally accepted as truth. Im not making anything up. If there were any claims to that land other than Jew or Arab, I at least am not aware of them

But I think, given that there is no place for the Jews to call their own in the whole wide world, that this ancestral homeland of theirs is the most likely place, and since they have said they will accept (and live in peace beside) a Palestinian state, that the real blame for continued fighting lies with Israel's enemies, be they Arab, Muslim, or whoever. Of course, this is (as you say) my opinion.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

. . . But I think, given that there is no place for the Jews to call their own in the whole wide world, that this ancestral homeland of theirs is the most likely place, and since they have said they will accept (and live in peace beside) a Palestinian state, that the real blame for continued fighting lies with Israel's enemies, be they Arab, Muslim, or whoever. Of course, this is (as you say) my opinion.

But will they be willing and able to live in that harmony. I think history demonstrates they are unwilling.

On a slightly different note, I am glad the building of the walls and the no man's lands conceived in the late 80's and early 90's as solutions were scratched. Those, to me, did nothing to resolve the problems.

In the end, the people of the region clearly had the valid calim under any law I am aware of. In other words, squatters come to own the land, especially after several hundred if not thousands of years. So, I get that the Jewish race/faith deserved to be there as well, but it is the taking of the land by some third party and giving it to them and kicking out the local people that just is wrong to me. None of us would like for the American Indians to do that to us and they have far more of a claim as this was 100% their land until we got here

Note - I am speaking conceptually and not against Israel per se as I do think Israel should exist. I just think the way they went about it is BS and was done totally to serve the interest of the west so they could place the boat people no one wanted.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But will they be willing and able to live in that harmony. I think history demonstrates they are unwilling.

On a slightly different note, I am glad the building of the walls and the no man's lands conceived in the late 80's and early 90's as solutions were scratched. Those, to me, did nothing to resolve the problems.

In the end, the people of the region clearly had the valid calim under any law I am aware of. In other words, squatters come to own the land, especially after several hundred if not thousands of years. So, I get that the Jewish race/faith deserved to be there as well, but it is the taking of the land by some third party and giving it to them and kicking out the local people that just is wrong to me. None of us would like for the American Indians to do that to us and they have far more of a claim as this was 100% their land until we got here

Note - I am speaking conceptually and not against Israel per se as I do think Israel should exist. I just think the way they went about it is BS and was done totally to serve the interest of the west so they could place the boat people no one wanted.

Jason, they have said they are willing. If they've responded militarily in the past its because they were attacked first. (even in the 6 days war, Egypt and Syria made their intentions clear by massing machines/airplanes/troops etc on the borders...Israel just beat them to the punch, and I say Good for Them). As for how Israel came into being in the first place, you have to remember that because of the Holocaust, the majority of the world felt that the Jews deserved a place of their own, and its my understanding that there was a general consensus (among the West at least) that Israel was the logical place for them to be. after all, Jerusalem was/is their capital. As for people displacing people it happens all the time, it happens even today and nobody likes it but its not like its unprecedented....

[skcin]

Damn that Rosie O'Donnell! She's tearing this board apart!

[BTFLCHLD]

Rose O'Donnell sucksass.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by skcin

Damn that Rosie O'Donnell! She's tearing this board apart!

We should have banned her a long time ago.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by elie

@ Rickypt - since you asked yesterday and I didn't see your post on time:
Greek is my mother tongue. I live in Athens. That is why (time difference) I never get to post on this board at the same hours as everybody

As to the rest of the conversation, I wonder about those alleged misinterpretations myself. I didnt think there were any. Sorry to interfere agian, but I think that everybody's point is made very clearly.

I like and hate Athens It is a beautiful city from an historical perspective, but the traffic is INSANE!!!!!!!

Having said that, I was there for the Olympics and that was just splendid!

[DavidMn]

Its kinda funny isnt it? I mean, Blazing Saddles, considered by many to be the funniest movie ever made, has the Burton Gilliam line "Dock that CH**K a days pay for nappin on the job." I mean we can laugh at that but not at Rosie? Although like I said earlier I just wish shed shut her hole for other reasons.