Rosie's ching-chong comments

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Ive been on the receiving end of racism as a minority myself, believe it or not!

Oh geez... I think I'm going to start a race war on the Ledge even though it is not my intention. All I can say is that:

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

And this is hardly an original concept. I believe it was Spike Lee who got into some hot water by stating his opinion about this in the media many years ago... and it was largely dismissed by the (mostly white) media.

But I happen to believe it is true. And it's hard to make this point without sounding like some kind of white-hating radical activist, which I am not (hullo, music does not get any "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac ). It's just that in the western world, caucasians are in a position of dominance- culturally, economically, politically, etc. This means that they are not exactly in a position of being persecuted, marginalized, criminalized or otherwise at a disadvantage in life because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak. So yes, I do realize that there are instances in largely ethnic neighborhoods where whites are technically in the minority. And I do realize that there are white stereotypes perpetrated in the media, e.g., that straight white boys can't dance, all white girls talk like Valley Girls, etc. But this is not the same as calling black people the "n" word or calling Asians "slanty eyes" or, again doing the "ching chong" thing. Historically, those derogatory terms came from a much darker place- they were a means of putting people of color down in their place- basically to remind them that they were different and were not equal to the (superior) whites. During the last World War, the Asian stereotypes were put out in the war propaganda to fuel the American zeitgeist against the Japanese (and, of course, to the vast majority of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. are all the same ) Conversely, there are no such derogatory terms in our language today that imply that [my race] is superior to caucasians, and caucasians are nothing but lowly _______. It's just not possible; caucasians control every aspect of western society. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong... it's just the way it is. Therefore, in my own estimation, it seems that any sort of derogatory terms about white people are either a) done in jest b) made up by one group of white people to feel superior to another group of white people, e.g., redneck, or c) crafted as an angry response to being oppressed, e.g., Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Himeytown."

Yes, it does sound like a double standard. But this is why it has been socially acceptable for black people to use the "n" word but totally forbidden for white people to use it. Accordingly, to a large degree, I have carte blanche to poke fun at Asian stereotypes, and trust me, I do (along with Margaret Cho, Amy Tan, etc.)! But for whites to do that... not such a good thing. In general, any time you are in a position of dominance, it really is your noblesse oblige to take the highroad when it comes to dealing with people who are at a disadvantage in society. That is why there is a double standard for white people- it is acceptable to knock white people down a peg or two, but it would be racial harassment if the tables were turned.

Let the flames begin!

[markolas]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Let the flames begin!

There won't be any flames from me; I agree with everything you've said. And I'm white, FWIW.

I've stayed out of this thread because I couldn't articulate what I wanted to say, but you seem to have done it for me.

[Rickypt]

Thanks, Hejira, I get why ching-chong struck such a nerve and is different than my french buds making fun of English. I didn't know it was considered such a slur.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Oh geez... I think I'm going to start a race war on the Ledge even though it is not my intention. All I can say is that:

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

And this is hardly an original concept. I believe it was Spike Lee who got into some hot water by stating his opinion about this in the media many years ago... and it was largely dismissed by the (mostly white) media.

But I happen to believe it is true. And it's hard to make this point without sounding like some kind of white-hating radical activist, which I am not (hullo, music does not get any "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac ). It's just that in the western world, caucasians are in a position of dominance- culturally, economically, politically, etc. This means that they are not exactly in a position of being persecuted, marginalized, criminalized or otherwise at a disadvantage in life because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak. So yes, I do realize that there are instances in largely ethnic neighborhoods where whites are technically in the minority. And I do realize that there are white stereotypes perpetrated in the media, e.g., that straight white boys can't dance, all white girls talk like Valley Girls, etc. But this is not the same as calling black people the "n" word or calling Asians "slanty eyes" or, again doing the "ching chong" thing. Historically, those derogatory terms came from a much darker place- they were a means of putting people of color down in their place- basically to remind them that they were different and were not equal to the (superior) whites. During the last World War, the Asian stereotypes were put out in the war propaganda to fuel the American zeitgeist against the Japanese (and, of course, to the vast majority of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. are all the same ) Conversely, there are no such derogatory terms in our language today that imply that [my race] is superior to caucasians, and caucasians are nothing but lowly _______. It's just not possible; caucasians control every aspect of western society. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong... it's just the way it is. Therefore, in my own estimation, it seems that any sort of derogatory terms about white people are either a) done in jest b) made up by one group of white people to feel superior to another group of white people, e.g., redneck, or c) crafted as an angry response to being oppressed, e.g., Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Himeytown."

Yes, it does sound like a double standard. But this is why it has been socially acceptable for black people to use the "n" word but totally forbidden for white people to use it. Accordingly, to a large degree, I have carte blanche to poke fun at Asian stereotypes, and trust me, I do (along with Margaret Cho, Amy Tan, etc.)! But for whites to do that... not such a good thing. In general, any time you are in a position of dominance, it really is your noblesse oblige to take the highroad when it comes to dealing with people who are at a disadvantage in society. That is why there is a double standard for white people- it is acceptable to knock white people down a peg or two, but it would be racial harassment if the tables were turned.

Let the flames begin!

For the most part, generally speaking, I agree with you. However, I WAS the victim of racism by a group of black girls when I was in the 7th grade. The odd thing was, eventually another black girl put a stop to it.

Also, there is such a thing as reverse discrimination--my brother experienced it when he was applying to Med school. Granted, its much less prevalent than the usual type of racism/discrimination, but it happens nonetheless. But for the record, as I said, I tend to agree with what you said.

[DrummerDeanna]

Hmm...I think the racism thing may depend somewhat on where you live. There was a lot of white discrimination where I came from - not ANYTHING on par what what other minorities go through mind you...

But Hispanics..mostly Mexicans (fully American - not recent immigrants) are the majority where I'm from - in school - all the way up through high school there were a lot of the gang-banger thug types who made it their duty to harass the white kids....so there is some discrimination there....but again nothing on the scope of what other minorities have and do face today.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Hmm...I think the racism thing may depend somewhat on where you live. There was a lot of white discrimination where I came from - not ANYTHING on par what what other minorities go through mind you...

But Hispanics..mostly Mexicans (fully American - not recent immigrants) are the majority where I'm from - in school - all the way up through high school there were a lot of the gang-banger thug types who made it their duty to harass the white kids....so there is some discrimination there....but again nothing on the scope of what other minorities have and do face today.

I grew up in a city that was (still) racially divided. In my hometown the caucasians were the majority and the blacks the minority (There is about 24 ethnicities represented in Muskogee, OK according to the 2000 US Census). A majority of my friends in Elementary & Jr. High were black and/or poor, We all grew up together so we had similar opinions on most anything since we came from similar backgrounds in the regard to being the poor children of families in the town (ie-Back in 5th grade, When Reagan was shot, our class stood and applauded much to our teacher Mrs.Cliff's disbelief.)

When I was in High School my friends were tossed in with the rich upper-class white kids from the rich 'country club' part of town and though racial tensions did arise, most of the time my friends of color were the ones who would be on the receiving end of the racial BS, and oddly they were the ones made to look the aggressors (Can ya say UTTER BS!!!?? I can.)...

Hell, my younger cousin was a member of a white racist group "the Posse" who started a race riot in my ol school the year I graduated. I remember asking him "Why" and his reason was more racial BS non-sensical reasons "Because they're black...Because blah blah blah".

One summer (1986) when I was playing baseball, I was the only white boy on an all black team, we had to travel out of town to play a team that was the mirror-universe opposites of my team, All white and 1 black. Can you believe the BS "N" word was yelled at us during the game, so much that the game was stopped midway when a fight broke out on the field and my team just decided to leave than contend with that BS. It was weird because I clearly remember the black player on the other team saying the "N" word wasnt aimed at me since I was white...To which I replied "No, I consider what you're saying to my teammates and an insult to me, so when you say that word to them you're saying it to me too."

My Mother worked with plenty of blacks, and the blacks loved my Mom, Because my Mother never judged someone by their skin color, she judged them by their actions. My Mom would quilt "Raggedy-Ann & Andy" dolls for her black friends that were black, not white (Why give a black friend a white doll with red hair? My Mom decided she would make some that were cool and her colored friends loved those dolls-I own the last black pair she ever made)

I am glad I was raised in Muskogee for it gave me the sight to see in a different perspective than had I been born elsewhere.

Brian "The Super Honky...err Injun too" j.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

For the most part, generally speaking, I agree with you. However, I WAS the victim of racism by a group of black girls when I was in the 7th grade. The odd thing was, eventually another black girl put a stop to it.

Why is that odd?

And what did they do to you?

[sparky]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

I got in an argument with two Mexican guys last week at Home Depot.
It was a stupid thing about a cart.
It was the first time I ever got the race thing tossed at me in my life.
What did they say to me?

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

So, last week, I experienced the hint that your statement isn't completely correct. Not in Los Angeles anyway.

I wasn't "offended." That overused, lame word should be struck from the English language I am so sick of it. But I was taken aback. The whole thing made me think. Because those guys were pissed. And they were right.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by sparky

I got in an argument with two Mexican guys last week at Home Depot.
It was a stupid thing about a cart.
It was the first time I ever got the race thing tossed at me in my life.
What did they say to me?

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

So, last week, I experienced the hint that your statement isn't completely correct. Not in Los Angeles anyway.

I wasn't "offended." That overused, lame word should be struck from the English language I am so sick of it. But I was taken aback. The whole thing made me think. Because those guys were pissed. And they were right.

Sparks, Ive heard that theory before, but not from the Mexicans themselves. it was first brought to my attention in a college class about California...

[amber]

Originally Posted by Heji

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Wow, how did I miss this? I've been racially based insulted numerous times. Now, whether or not this extends to institutions, hiring, etc. I can't say.

But as far as individual people and racism, or...reverse racism? It's alive and well, trust.
Also a lot of traditionally "minority" races are much more prejudiced against other "minority" races than most white people I've come in contact with. Asians are notoriously prejudiced against black people for sure (and perhaps others), as are middle eastern people. This is what I've seen.
In fall 2002, UC Berkeley was 46% asian american, the largest percentage attending, with the next highest (white) at only about 30%.
So, really, we can't afford for anyone to be prejudice, traditional "minorities" or not.
This doesn't have much bearing on your experience as a child, but I just wanted to relay that there is racism against whites, and that minorities are fast becoming non minorities, and those minorities can be just as racist if not moreso than white people. And so, while some people think there isn't much danger when "minorities" are prejudice against whites - there can be danger if our institutions are becoming such that a majority of that institution's population is a certain race that may be prejudice, just like there is danger if institutions are primarily white and there is prejudice.
I think the fallacy is that there isn't prejudice against whites. Maybe not so much by other whites (der), but that isn't the reality of america's racial makeup.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by sparky

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

what did you do/say in response?

[sparky]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

what did you do/say in response?

"F*ck you both" is what I said.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by sparky

"F*ck you both" is what I said.

That's what I wanted to read!

[wondergirl9847]

Did anyone here have a say in your ethnic background? Did you have a conversation with your parents before your own birth?

I'll go ahead and say a collective NO for everyone here.

Seriously though, I'll NEVER EVER understand how someone can say another person is inferior for being a certain race. We do not get to choose WHAT we are, but we can choose WHO we are. You wanna be a jerkface...you chose to be so. You wanna be a nice, decent person, you chose that. But, nobody can choose to be a particular race. No Michael Jackson jokes here, okay.

It saddens me when people like HejiraNYC say they were ashamed of being Asian. Nothing is wrong with being Asian or black or white or Hispanic, etc. I don't like to say I'm a white person, because I literally am not white. I am not an albino person. I have a varied background, with Italian, Irish, German and Native American descent. I know what white means, but I hate being called a white person. I'm a HUMAN BEING.

A friend of mine asked me once how I felt going into a Middle Eastern restaurant. I said "What do you mean?" and he asked "Do you feel anger towards the people who work here because of 9/11?" I said "Why would I feel anger towards people I don't know? They didn't do anything. They are making my meal."

I was taught to love everyone and not judge. I wish that everyone in the world were taught that as well.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

It saddens me when people like HejiraNYC say they were ashamed of being Asian. Nothing is wrong with being Asian or black or white or Hispanic, etc. I don't like to say I'm a white person, because I literally am not white. I am not an albino person. I have a varied background, with Italian, Irish, German and Native American descent. I know what white means, but I hate being called a white person. I'm a HUMAN BEING.

A friend of mine asked me once how I felt going into a Middle Eastern restaurant. I said "What do you mean?" and he asked "Do you feel anger towards the people who work here because of 9/11?" I said "Why would I feel anger towards people I don't know? They didn't do anything. They are making my meal."

I was taught to love everyone and not judge. I wish that everyone in the world were taught that as well.

Let me underscore that my shame is in the past tense. I am not as hung up on racial stuff as I used to be... of course, being in NYC, everybody is a minority! And of course, I agree with everything you said... and I only wish things were that simple.

But *****'s complicated, you dig?