FDA approves morning after pill for over the counter!

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, their argument is the fetus, zygote, etc. is a life from the moment of conception and that life has freedoms which must be protected as well. Interestingly, the Court in Roe agreed with this line of thinking. But, in Roe, the Court held that the state's interest in protecting the life of the unborn outweighs the mother's right to privacy only when the fetus is viable outside of the womb, which the Court after a long discussion found was after the first trimester.

Roe really was a landmark case in many ways, the least of which was expanding a right not specifically found in the Const.

If men got pregnant there would be no such argument and you'd be able to get the morning after pill in the candy aisle. JK, I would argue that since the fetus is wholly dependent on its mother's body it is up to her to choose.

Is a fertilized egg even a zygote? I don't think it is yet.

[irishgrl]

If men got pregnant there would be no such argument and you'd be able to get the morning after pill in the candy aisle.

no joke I have that as a bumper sticker (If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament)

JK, I would argue that since the fetus is wholly dependent on its mother's body it is up to her to choose.

YES! and there you have it in a nutshell folks, without a host body for the developing fetus to draw from it would be dead. And I can remember a compelling argument by Anne Quinlan that said the rights of the already living outweigh the rights of the not yet born. I happen to agree.

Is a fertilized egg even a zygote? I don't think it is yet.

I found this:

In organisms that reproduce sexually, once a sperm fertilizes an egg cell, the result is a cell called the zygote that has all the DNA of two parents. In plants, animals, and some protists, the zygote will begin to divide by mitosis to produce a multicellular organism. The term embryo refers to the early stages of this development, after the zygote has divided at least once, but before the process has completed to produce the next stage of development.

In animals, the development of the zygote into an embryo proceeds through specific recognizable stages of morula, blastula, and gastrula. This process involves the creating of a hollow sphere of cells in which three tissue layers develop. In plants. the process is not so standard. The stages of embryo development in plants is more dependent upon the kind of plant being produced.

btw, Im not biting Jason, we've already gone round and round about whether the Supremes did in fact "create" new law by lumping privacy with other rights.

[DrummerDeanna]

I still find it amusing (in a sad kind of way) that the Religious Right and Conservatives get all up in arms about a freaking egg and sperm but once a kid is born - it's fend for yourself of die....they don't care about actual people.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I still find it amusing (in a sad kind of way) that the Religious Right and Conservatives get all up in arms about a freaking egg and sperm but once a kid is born - it's fend for yourself of die....they don't care about actual people.

Truly ironic, I agree. And all of the social programs that were put into place to take care of these children (and their parental caregivers) have been systematically gutted and restricted. Its hypocritical as is the majority of the message that has been spewed by the Religious Right.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I still find it amusing (in a sad kind of way) that the Religious Right and Conservatives get all up in arms about a freaking egg and sperm but once a kid is born - it's fend for yourself of die....they don't care about actual people.

"Boy, these Conservatives are really something arent they? They're all in favor of the unborn, They will do anything for the unborn, but once your born you're on your own (Flips the middle finger).

Pro-life Conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to 9 months, after that they don't wanna know about you, they don't wanna hear from you. No nothing. No neo-natal care, No daycare, No headstart, No school lunch, No foodstamps, No welfare, No nothing. If you're pre-born your fine, if you're pre-school your f**ked! You're f**ked!

Conservatives don't give a **** about you, until you reach...Military age. Then they think you are just fine, Just what they been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers...Pro-life, pro-life...These people arent pro-life, they are killing doctors. What kind of pro-life is that? What, they will do anything they can to save a fetus but if it grows up to be a Doctor they may just have to kill it?

They're not pro-life, you know what they are? They're anti-WOMAN. It's as simple as it gets...Anti-WOMAN, they don't like 'em. They dont like women.

They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a broodmare for the state. Pro-life. You don't see many of these white anti-abortion women volunteering to have any black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses do ya? No, You don't see 'em adopting alot of crack babies, do ya? Nah, that might be something Christ would do.

And...you won't see, you won't see alot of these of these pro-life people dousing themselves in karosene and lighting themselves on fire. You know morally committed religious people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a God-damned demonstration didnt they? Huh?

Hey, They knew how to put on a f**king protest. "Light yourself on fire"!!! C'mon you moral crusaders lets see a little smoke. To match the fire in your belly.

Here's another question I have, Why when it is us it is an abortion, and with a chicken it's an omelet?"-George Carlin "Back in Town" 1996

Brian "why why why, why is it, that most of the people who are against abortion, are people you wouldnt want to f**k in the first place-George Carlin 1996 "Back in Town" j.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

Yes! Thanks for finding that - I knew he'd done something on this issue - oh how I love George Carlin! He's so spot on though....!

I love the people in this argument saying the pill will help REDUCE abortions! But no - the right will have none of that - and say the left is putting the pill on their abortion platform.

It's maddening...maddening - and really does fit more with an anti-woman stance than an anti-abortion one.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

^^

Yes! Thanks for finding that - I knew he'd done something on this issue - oh how I love George Carlin! He's so spot on though....!

I love the people in this argument saying the pill will help REDUCE abortions! But no - the right will have none of that - and say the left is putting the pill on their abortion platform.

It's maddening...maddening - and really does fit more with an anti-woman stance than an anti-abortion one.

I actually listened to my old cassette tape and transcribed George's lil diatribe on abortion (My typing skills arent the greatest, but I do get by.)

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

. . . I would argue that since the fetus is wholly dependent on its mother's body it is up to her to choose . . . .

And, the Court agrees with you up until the end of the first tri-mester.

Interestingly, the fetus is dependent on the mother until birth. So, using that logic, the mother could abort while delivering Also, when you get down to it, the baby depends wholly on its mother or some other human (assuming one is around and has milk) for life for the next three to five years after that.

In the end, I think until self viability earlier than the first trimester can be demonstrated through medical advances, Roe will stand.

I also think the vast majority of Americans are for Roe and the right to choose, though many would choose life. I do think, however, Roe could fall if the religious right wins its carefully waged war by making the so called BS issues the subject of elections. For example, very few Americans think a 12 year old girl ought to have an abortion without telling her parents, especially considering they would need parental consent for any other voluntary surgery. So, if the religious right puts that issue out there in an election, they will take many of the pro choice people with them because of that issue. That will lead to the appointment of anti-Roe judges. To me, that is sad because likely so realtively few 12 year olds will not get an abortion, etc., when compared to the thousands of other abortions that would not exist if Roe falls.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

And, the Court agrees with you up until the end of the first tri-mester.

Interestingly, the fetus is dependent on the mother until birth. So, using that logic, the mother could abort while delivering Also, when you get down to it, the baby depends wholly on its mother or some other human (assuming one is around and has milk) for life for the next three to five years after that.

In the end, I think until self viability earlier than the first trimester can be demonstrated through medical advances, Roe will stand.

I also think the vast majority of Americans are for Roe and the right to choose, though many would choose life. I do think, however, Roe could fall if the religious right wins its carefully waged war by making the so called BS issues the subject of elections. For example, very few Americans think a 12 year old girl ought to have an abortion without telling her parents, especially considering they would need parental consent for any other voluntary surgery. So, if the religious right puts that issue out there in an election, they will take many of the pro choice people with them because of that issue. That will lead to the appointment of anti-Roe judges. To me, that is sad because likely so realtively few 12 year olds will not get an abortion, etc., when compared to the thousands of other abortions that would not exist if Roe falls.

A fetus DOES depend upon its mother but the longer it develops the greater its chances of surviving outside the womb. Also, the developing fetus draws all it needs to develop from the mother's body which takes a toll on her, depending upon how healthy she is to begin with. For instance, if there is a chemical incompatibility between mother and fetus, the mother suffers greatly and her body may reject the fetus and spontaneously abort, or the mother can be ill the entire pregnancy. Some women lose teeth and/or hair. Two beings are living off of the resources of one body and it is for that reason that I believe the choice to continue a pregnancy is a very personal one for the MOTHER.

I can tell you that I was born at 24 weeks, and even at that I nearly didnt live--I was born at a time when preemie technology was so brand new, not every hospital had the right equipment. 24 weeks has been, and IMO, will continue to be the cutoff point at which babies can survive outside the womb with medical assistance. Any earlier than that, and the chances of death increase sharply. I hope you're right Jason about Roe surviving, but Im very afraid for its future.

The one bright spot is that Americans seem to be waking up across the nation to just how restrictive this Right Wing agenda is and are grumbling about a change in leadership. Lets hope this feeling gathers strength and carries us to a GOP defeat come November.