Shocking 1992 Article...

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by sparky

I don't really care if she did or not. But, Henley leaked it, and she herself talked about them in the press. So, the door is open. If it is of interest to people, I say chat away.

Yeah, I get it. I just don't think it's warrants lengthy discussion. I guess I'm not all that interested in the bodily functions of Stevie Nicks and think it's an unworthy topic of discussion, but that's just me. If people want to talk about it fine, I just think it's kind of irrelevant and tasteless.

If people can't "bear" to be around that kind of discussion, I guess there is always ignore

I agree.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

I don't really care if she did or not. But, Henley leaked it, and she herself talked about them in the press. So, the door is open. If it is of interest to people, I say chat away.

If people can't "bear" to be around that kind of discussion, I guess there is always ignore, or therapy.

I tend to agree. I mean if La Nicks put it out there, it is fair game. Interestingly, she really did not put this one out there in the sense that Henley did and she responded to that. As for this article, if it is based on the audio I heard, it is unclear if she meant four abortions or four loves of her life. She does, however, talk generically about never having children for her career, which is a form of putting this issue out there. So, I just take that for what it is worth

[DestinyRules]

Originally Posted by David

Hot dang. It's been so long since I've talked to her. How is she doing?!

About the same as always, re: diabetes. She has her good days and her not so good days, but we talked a couple of weeks ago and it was one of our usual "It's Late" convos.

I always thought you were the David she and I know from the newsgroup. I just couldn't be sure until just now!

[sparky]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Yeah, I get it. I just don't think it's warrants lengthy discussion. I guess I'm not all that interested in the bodily functions of Stevie Nicks and think it's an unworthy topic of discussion, but that's just me. If people want to talk about it fine, I just think it's kind of irrelevant and tasteless.

It is odd, and a point of interest to me, the different aspects of Stevie that people find worthy of discussion. On one hand, this whole abortion thing is just one more aspect of Stevie's personal life that made it out there into the arena of public knowledge. Is it intensely private ? Sure ? Could she have handled it in a way that made it hands off and taboo in spite of Henley's statement? Probably. But, much of her mythology and personal life has become so intertwined with her art, it is hard to see a distinction between private and public. It is my opinion that the shipper angle is is a little twisted and tasteless. From a fan POV and a psychological POV. But, it is something that is brought up again and again, even by Stevie. I suspect there is something about that blend of public and private, persona and reality, that makes people so compelled to know more. Unfortunately it has become part and parcel of Stevie's schtick. And I use the word schtick with purpose and with all the meanings it could possibly imply.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

It is odd, and a point of interest to me, the different aspects of Stevie that people find worthy of discussion. On one hand, this whole abortion thing is just one more aspect of Stevie's personal life that made it out there into the arena of public knowledge. Is it intensely private ? Sure ? Could she have handled it in a way that made it hands off and taboo in spite of Henley's statement? Probably. But, much of her mythology and personal life has become so intertwined with her art, it is hard to see a distinction between private and public. It is my opinion that the shipper angle is is a little twisted and tasteless. From a fan POV and a psychological POV. But, it is something that is brought up again and again, even by Stevie. I suspect there is something about that blend of public and private, persona and reality, that makes people so compelled to know more. Unfortunately it has become part and parcel of Stevie's schtick. And I use the word schtick with purpose and with all the meanings it could possibly imply.

I agree in theory and if all parites in the discussion were altruistic in intent. The problem with Stevie (IMO FAR more than the other members) is that people just enjoy berating her and purposefully antagonizing the Chiffon Heads. So, that spice is in the discussion mix as well - at least to me.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree in theory and if all parites in the discussion were altruistic in intent. The problem with Stevie (IMO FAR more than the other members) is that people just enjoy berating her and purposefully antagonizing the Chiffon Heads. So, that spice is in the discussion mix as well - at least to me.

I don't understand. The discussion is done to antagonize the chiffonheads ?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

I don't understand. The discussion is done to antagonize the chiffonheads ?

No. But, some people participate in it or start it just to stir up shiitte. Certainly you have noticed that Note - the Chiffon Heads can be way too sensitive as well, but, I submit not significantly more than the cheerleaders for the others. I think it just pisses the Stevie haters off that La Nicks is so much more popular than all the other members. I get that popularity does not equate to musical talent a la CM's piano playing, but without that popularity, the songs do not get produced, etc. So, it is a yin/yang as I see it. Yet, some, but certainly not all, people cannot help but bash and that is what I am talking about.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

No. But, some people participate in it or start it just to stir up shiitte. Certainly you have noticed that Note - the Chiffon Heads can be way too sensitive as well, but, I submit not significantly more than the cheerleaders for the others. I think it just pisses the Stevie haters off that La Nicks is so much more popular than all the other members. I get that popularity does not equate to musical talent a la CM's piano playing, but without that popularity, the songs do not get produced, etc. So, it is a yin/yang as I see it. Yet, some, but certainly not all, people cannot help but bash and that is what I am talking about.

Let's define "bashing."

Which ledgies bash Stevie? I would say Homie bashes Stevie. Any others?

[skcin]

Originally Posted by David

Let's define "bashing."

Which ledgies bash Stevie? I would say Homie bashes Stevie. Any others?

ChiliD. Well, actually, he bashes Stevie's fans more than Stevie herself, I guess. That's all I can think of right now.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

Let's define "bashing."

Which ledgies bash Stevie? I would say Homie bashes Stevie. Any others?

Homie does it for a rise - but he can be funny and most know his shenanigans I think Diss used to do it a little. Carne certainly did it.

As for defining bashing - I think calling her a cow, talentless, etc. is pretty close to the mark.

[David]

Originally Posted by skcin

ChiliD. Well, actually, he bashes Stevie's fans more than Stevie herself, I guess. That's all I can think of right now.

Okay. Over the past ten years or so, I've been interested in the definition of bashing, the underpinnings of bashing, the motives, etc. I've come to the conclusion that bashing is essential to fan worship (& also exists apart from fan worship). Mike Bise used to bash Bekka pretty mercilessly in his fanzine Mirror Mirror. His hatred of her was musical & vocal, yes, but it also existed apart from that. He gave one the sense, in his writing, that Bekka was a usurper, a parvenu, that she was muscling in on Stevie's territory (even though Stevie had relinquished that particular plot of earth voluntarily herself) & even in some way trying to destroy Stevie & her legacy.

But can legacies be destroyed--at least in so facile a way?

I just ate a big piece of smoked sockeye salmon from the cold waters of Alaskan rivers. I destroyed it! Yum!

According to some definitions, I bash Stevie; & yet what's going on here? it's very interesting because all my sig banners, for example, have Stevie in them.

So that's why I'm interested in the characterizations of "bashing." I rely on YOU & other ledgies to help me form my delineative characterizations.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

As for defining bashing - I think calling her a cow, talentless, etc. is pretty close to the mark.

Well, that's a good point. It would be hard to quibble with that characterization.

Now I'm beginning to wonder why bashing takes on a certain character, a theme if you will, with specific members of the band. For example, Stevie is often scoffed at for being dumb (whether she is or not is a separate issue). Mick has, too, whereas Christine, John & Lindsey--who have all been scoffed at for varied reasons--have never been called or considered dumb. Mick gets bashed for being a crass capitalist who turns the fan-artist relationship into nothing more than a marketplace of buying & selling. The others, from Peter to Bob Welch to Stevie to Rick, never get bashed for being crass & venal.

Different themes of bashing seem to accrue to the different members, not in turn but exclusively in some cases.

[DestinyRules]

The biggest problem I see when people talk about "bashers" is the fact that, I get the sense that in the minds of some, if you're not OMG! fawning all over Stevie and if you don't see her as can-do-no-wrong, you are "bashing" Stevie.

There are people on here who can look at Stevie with a balanced eye. They can see her faults (perhaps that she's not a *musician* per se or she had as much to do with the reasons behind her breakup with Lindsey as he did), but also see her for what she does well. Namely, write some jaw-droppingly great lyrics that can summarise in a few pithy words things that it takes other people volumes to express.

When people criticise THAT group for trying to be objective, that's where I have a problem. I also have a problem with people who bash Stevie because of whatever reason, whether it's to get a rise out of the chiffon heads or it's some genuine vitriol toward her. But I also have a problem with too much hero worship of her, especially when it's done to the detriment of the other members of Fleetwood Mac.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by sparky

But, it is something that is brought up again and again, even by Stevie.

I know. That 1992 article was so sad though. Stevie was such a train wreck, I felt like a voyeur reading that article.

[David]

Originally Posted by DestinyRules

The biggest problem I see when people talk about "bashers" is the fact that, I get the sense that in the minds of some, if you're not OMG! fawning all over Stevie and if you don't see her as can-do-no-wrong, you are "bashing" Stevie.

See, I think that's at the crux of a great deal of antagonism between fans. It seems to self-perpetuate the motives for bashing. One person's perspective is obviously that he's just bringing a little balance & reason to a rabid group of worshippers, while the other person's perspective is that HE is the balanced & reasoned one, believing that he sees the idol squarely & without blinders & the other guy is just grinding an ax or exhibiting rage. So the more one person experiences the other, the more firmly entrenched his perspective is going to be in the future, & the other guy will continue to drop in his estimation.

See how interesting bashing & fan relationships are?