Gay Gay Gay - Page 18

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**256** 10-31-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

I know you like your labels, Brown Eyes. I know you love to be able to call yourself a Republican and a Catholic, and I've no doubt you'll soon get really into being Gay with a capital G. You like to have an institution or community to align yourself with so that you're not just standing out there alone with your beliefs or your identity. That's fine.

But take a second not to be offended by every mildly smart-ass remark that has been made in this thread, and you'll see a number of people have already tried to explain to you why it seems so paradoxical to label yourself a Gay Republican. Because even in the past five years the Republican party has repeatedly tried to prevent gays from obtaining equal rights, in addition to trying to strip them of some rights they already have. As a party and an institution, one of their goals is to maginalize, stigamtize and to a large extent criminalize homosexuality. You've said elsewhere that that's just "one issue." But if you are homosexual, I'd say that's one pretty damn big issue.

So you're a fiscal conservative? Fine. You believe in limited government? Great. That doesn't mean you have to align yourself with a party that is trying to criminalize your sexual identity. There's no reason for you to be loyal to such an institution. You can agree with them on economic and governmental issues and still oppose them vehemently when it comes to their vilifying your lifestyle.

Just get rid of the label and disassociate yourself from an institution that hates you. That doesn't mean you have to change any other of your political beliefs. It just means that you're admitting to yourself that this is not a party which has all the right answers, and not a party with which you can completely align yourself in good conscience.

Nothing wrong with having "NPA" printed on your voter registration card. It just means that you think for yourself.

And yeah, it's going to be really hard in the voting booth. Because the next time you're voting somebody into office, you might have to decide which is more important to you at that moment - your economic and political preferences, or your basic rights as a human being who happens to be gay. That choice is up to you, but odds are, in this two-party system, you're not going to be able to have it both

You know you have no idea how right you probably are. I guess I have always felt the need to feel a part of some community and to label myself something. I suppose it sort of made me feel safe and protected. I guess I have just always clung to whatever came along (which I guess makes me somewhat pathetic)...I don't even really know who exactly I am anymore. I don't know what I stand for or why exactly this path has been chosen for me. But I suppose that mystery is a gift from God, I know that somewhere, somehow, and someday I will make be able to sort out all of this and find out WHO I AM and not just identify myself with whoever/whatever I associate myself with.

Perhaps I should just give up caring about politics all together and just concentrate on the one thing I know...love.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**257** 10-31-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I know that it was a professor (I included that part so that I wouldn't be misrepresenting you) but you did agree at the time. That whole era, as you know, is full of extremely homophobic comments.

I know that you're sorry and I'm glad that you've come to see things differently, but it is a relatively quick and dramatic change, I think. Just an observation, not a condemnation.

Eh..yea that was a bad time. Sorry I TRULY didn't mean to offend you or anyone else for that matter and it was just silly and stupid.

But how would your prefer me to come to grips with this...wait 5 years and then say, "oh yea I think I'm gay"? I mean this is something THAT I MYSELF am still getting used to. I am just now over the past couple of weeks admitting this to myself. I don't think this is something I can "ease" myself into. I finally have enough guts to say...you know what I AM GAY! I am a blunt person, so therefore I feel I must be totally honest with myself...now as far as telling family and friends...ehhh....now THAT will be a slow process. As of today you ledgies are the only people to know. I told Ken first and now I'm telling all of ya'll...

ryan8472 · #**258** 10-31-2005, 09:48 PM

Can someone please tell me how this thread has become 14 pages long? 8 pages longer than it was a few hours ago?!

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**259** 10-31-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan8472

Can someone please tell me how this thread has become 14 pages long? 8 pages longer than it was a few hours ago?!

As usual dear it is because of me.

I usually make ONE comment and page numbers just multiply like bunnies (floppy, hoppy...BUNNIES! *shout out to Buffy fans*)

DavidMn · #**260** 10-31-2005, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan8472

Can someone please tell me how this thread has become 14 pages long? 8 pages longer than it was a few hours ago?!

Lots of horny men. LoL

How was your weekend sir?

irishgrl · #**261** 10-31-2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan8472

Can someone please tell me how this thread has become 14 pages long? 8 pages longer than it was a few hours ago?!

it was a race to see how much we could write about YOU before you caught on of course

Johnny Stew · #**262** 10-31-2005, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

You know you have no idea how right you probably are. I guess I have always felt the need to feel a part of some community and to label myself something. I suppose it sort of made me feel safe and protected. I guess I have just always clung to whatever came along (which I guess makes me somewhat pathetic)...I don't even really know who exactly I am anymore. I don't know what I stand for or why exactly this path has been chosen for me. But I suppose that mystery is a gift from God, I know that somewhere, somehow, and someday I will make be able to sort out all of this and find out WHO I AM and not just identify myself with whoever/whatever I associate myself with.

Perhaps I should just give up caring about politics all together and just concentrate on the one thing I know...love.

You're Brandon... that's the only label you'll ever need.

We're human -- we have a lot of leeway for changing, growing, and for adopting beliefs and opinions and then abandoning or adapting them as we learn and experience new things.
And as you go through life, you'll realize that certain values and belief systems that used to seem irreconcilable, can co-exist.

For example, I believe in and have a deep faith in God, and I was raised Catholic, yet I think that Christianity is one of the worst things to ever happen to humanity.

So just embrace the fact that you're an individual, and don't try to conform yourself to fit other people's labels.

"It's better to be hated for who you are, than loved for who you're not."

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**263** 10-31-2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

You're Brandon... that's the only label you'll ever need.

We're human -- we have a lot of leeway for changing, growing, and for adopting beliefs and opinions and then abandoning or adapting them as we learn and experience new things.
And as you go through life, you'll realize that certain values and belief systems that used to seem irreconcilable, can co-exist.

For example, I believe in and have a deep faith in God, and I was raised Catholic, yet I think that Christianity is one of the worst things to ever happen to humanity.

So just embrace the fact that you're an individual, and don't try to conform yourself to fit other people's labels.

"It's better to be hated for who you are, than loved for who you're not."

Thanks again for the kind words. You are a very insightful person!

I hope I am able to do all of these things. I'm so use to just clinging to something...anything. I'm so scared I'm going to lose everything I've ever known...

GateandGarden · #**264** 10-31-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Eh..yea that was a bad time. Sorry I TRULY didn't mean to offend you or anyone else for that matter and it was just silly and stupid.

But how would your prefer me to come to grips with this...wait 5 years and then say, "oh yea I think I'm gay"? I mean this is something THAT I MYSELF am still getting used to. I am just now over the past couple of weeks admitting this to myself. I don't think this is something I can "ease" myself into. I finally have enough guts to say...you know what I AM GAY! I am a blunt person, so therefore I feel I must be totally honest with myself...now as far as telling family and friends...ehhh....now THAT will be a slow process. As of today you ledgies are the only people to know. I told Ken first and now I'm telling all of ya'll...

I can understand what you're saying there. I felt that way...I pretty much still feel that way. I wouldn't want you to wait five years, no. My time as a repressed homosexual was too long; I'm sure you feel the same way and would even more so if you made yourself wait. I also completely understand needing to be blunt and honest. In addition to all of that, I understand your need to be a part of something, as you said a few posts ago. Mari has said before that the labels are unnecessary but I feel that I need to be gay (or whatever the case may be) rather than just me. I have to be able to explain why I feel the way I feel; I need a name for it. I need to know that there are others out there who are comparable to me in that way so that I have people to talk to about it. I think this is human nature, and especially in the case of young people, and we are both young.

It's just hard for me to get past your comments from only a few months ago. I went through a change myself but it was not so dramatic. I never thought that it was wrong to be gay, I just didn't want someone to tell me I was, or I was likely to stop speaking to the person. I never told anyone that he or she was going against God or nature by being gay, despite the fact that the idea of being that myself scared the hell out of me. I'm very tempted to make a comment about organized religion here.

I understand that you're not the only person who has been through that in just that way, though, so I suppose I am being unfair. But it's hard to say "all is forgiven" when comments like yours have been made.

It's very hard for me to have that stuff thrown on me. I always think I'm ready for it but then it comes and I realize I'm not. I'm getting better, but very slowly. Whenever Chris expresses his joy at his own homosexuality, I feel that I might cry. I don't think I can ever truly feel that way; I am far too tied to other people. I can't not think of the relatives of mine, for example who will NEVER accept that. Homosexuality can be joyful for me only under certain circumstances and there is no consistency with it. I am very angry much of the time. Though I can't relate directly, it is why I find myself identifying with Malcolm X so much. Some of your previous comments were added to the plethora of similar comments I hear regularly and sometimes it's just one more that is the straw that breaks the camel's back; the determinant that makes one either rest easily or cry herself to sleep. And there are people who are weaker than I am. That, to me, is a scary thought. There are people whose lives can be broken by a few strongly homophobic comments here and there.

But perhaps I am being very unfair to you because you have been trying to find yourself and what has happened is inevitable and maybe even beyond your control. But like you, I'm being honest and putting it out there. I know you have a lot of soul searching to do (as do I--it is probably nearly a lifelong process) and I really don't want to make it more difficult. Besides, maybe I am doing something thoroughly futile because what I'm talking about is water under the bridge, anyway.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**265** 10-31-2005, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I can understand what you're saying there. I felt that way...I pretty much still feel that way. I wouldn't want you to wait five years, no. My time as a repressed homosexual was too long; I'm sure you feel the same way and would even more so if you made yourself wait. I also completely understand needing to be blunt and honest. In addition to all of that, I understand your need to be a part of something, as you said a few posts ago. Mari has said before that the labels are unnecessary but I feel that I need to be gay (or whatever the case may be) rather than just me. I have to be able to explain why I feel the way I feel; I need a name for it. I need to know that there are others out there who are comparable to me in that way so that I have people to talk to about it. I think this is human nature, and especially in the case of young people, and we are both young.

It's just hard for me to get past your comments from only a few months ago. I went through a change myself but it was not so dramatic. I never thought that it was wrong to be gay, I just didn't want someone to tell me I was, or I was likely to stop speaking to the person. I never told anyone that he or she was going against God or nature by being gay, despite the fact that the idea of being that myself scared the hell out of me. I'm very tempted to make a comment about organized religion here.

I understand that you're not the only person who has been through that in just that way, though, so I suppose I am being unfair. But it's hard to say "all is forgiven" when comments like yours have been made.

It's very hard for me to have that stuff thrown on me. I always think I'm ready for it but then it comes and I realize I'm not. I'm getting better, but very slowly. Whenever Chris expresses his joy at his own homosexuality, I feel that I might cry. I don't think I can ever truly feel that way; I am far too tied to other people. I can't not think of the relatives of mine, for example who will NEVER accept that. Homosexuality can be joyful for me only under certain circumstances and there is no consistency with it. I am very angry much of the time. Though I can't relate directly, it is why I find myself identifying with Malcolm X so much. Some of your previous comments were added to the plethora of similar comments I hear regularly and sometimes it's just one more that is the straw that breaks the camel's back; the determinant that makes one either rest easily or cry herself to sleep. And there are people who are weaker than I am. That, to me, is a scary thought. There are people whose lives can be broken by a few strongly homophobic comments here and there.

But perhaps I am being very unfair to you because you have been trying to find yourself and what has happened is inevitable and maybe even beyond your control. But like you, I'm being honest and putting it out there. I know you have a lot of soul searching to do (as do I--it is probably nearly a lifelong process) and I really don't want to make it more difficult. Besides, maybe I am doing something thoroughly futile because what I'm talking about is water under the bridge, anyway.

Wow. Such a LONG POST HILLARY!

I'm afraid mine can't be as long, because I honestly don't know what to say to you.

I'm so sorry for anything that I said that was stupid or ignorant. I don't know how to make any transition without being dramatic!

That is just me! But seriously, it's not really a change as much as it is an acceptance.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**266** 10-31-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReFleetwoodMac

I'm honored that I have made someone despise me so much that he completely ingores my direct questions. But I will try one more time for the sake of closure, even though I am starting to piece together answers for myself now. Mr. Brown Eyes, you came to this conclusion within the last few days? Were you still very much against the idea a few weeks ago, or was that my over active hallucinations acting up again?

I think if you concentrate on the recent posts between Hillary and me, your questions will be answered.

JazmenFlowers · #**267** 10-31-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Eh..yea that was a bad time. Sorry I TRULY didn't mean to offend you or anyone else for that matter and it was just silly and stupid.

But how would your prefer me to come to grips with this...wait 5 years and then say, "oh yea I think I'm gay"? I mean this is something THAT I MYSELF am still getting used to. I am just now over the past couple of weeks admitting this to myself. I don't think this is something I can "ease" myself into. I finally have enough guts to say...you know what I AM GAY! I am a blunt person, so therefore I feel I must be totally honest with myself...now as far as telling family and friends...ehhh....now THAT will be a slow process. As of today you ledgies are the only people to know. I told Ken first and now I'm telling all of ya'll...

Brandon - all past transgressions aside, I wish you only the best in finding out who you are and making the life YOU want. Your ideas and beliefs may change and that's part of life. Be proud of who you are. To me, being a kind, generous person to the best of your ability is all anyone can ask of you. No one is perfect...I think there are some great people here on the Ledge to talk to and befriend...and then there are asses that will be asses no matter what. I learn to steer away from them and let them say what they want and be as hateful as they want...you can always sign off and walk away from the computer...I've done that to several of your posts. Over on the Stevie Ledge there are people bickering back and forth over Stevie only doing this song or that song or not wearing this or that and yeah, I'd like to see the same thing they want to see...but I'm not hear to trash her or anyone in any way, or at least I try not to. I want to celebrate her music and appreciate what she has done and continues to do; bring great joy to my life no matter if she's in a damn garbage bag and farting and saying Rhiannon once (as a Ledgie said). And as Reba said (covering a great old song) "to thine own self, be true" and I think it's cheesy but very very applicable. Ehh, I guess that's all...

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**268** 10-31-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

Brandon - all past transgressions aside, I wish you only the best in finding out who you are and making the life YOU want. Your ideas and beliefs may change and that's part of life. Be proud of who you are. To me, being a kind, generous person to the best of your ability is all anyone can ask of you. No one is perfect...I think there are some great people here on the Ledge to talk to and befriend...and then there are asses that will be asses no matter what. I learn to steer away from them and let them say what they want and be as hateful as they want...you can always sign off and walk away from the computer...I've done that to several of your posts. Over on the Stevie Ledge there are people bickering back and forth over Stevie only doing this song or that song or not wearing this or that and yeah, I'd like to see the same thing they want to see...but I'm not hear to trash her or anyone in any way, or at least I try not to. I want to celebrate her music and appreciate what she has done and continues to do; bring great joy to my life no matter if she's in a damn garbage bag and farting and saying Rhiannon once (as a Ledgie said). And as Reba said (covering a great old song) "to thine own self, be true" and I think it's cheesy but very very applicable. Ehh, I guess that's all...

Thank you!

The last part made me laugh!!!!

GateandGarden · #**269** 10-31-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

And as Reba said (covering a great old song) "to thine own self, be true" and I think it's cheesy but very very applicable. Ehh, I guess that's all...

Whoa, wait a minute!

Cheesy?

That's from Hamlet! (Okay, had to say that.

)