fritz and destiny....

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

DUDE!!! I KNOW!!! I was sad on the day I heard that. I was like "oh, she really can be uber craptastic" - thank goodness she didn't release it.
Amber too, I think it's terrible, although that was very early in her career, to be fair. Still, Suck 0 Rama.

I'm with you in thinking that most of her demos are torturous. The piano ones are especially whoreanus. There should be a law against abusing instruments like she does. I shall lobby Congress to make the acts of torture she perpetrates on her pianos illegal. We must be decisive and merciless. Help me bring about this course of action before it's too late, Amber!!

Or we can hitch to Phoenix and just bind her fingers together.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

Wait, did you say "Cockadoodie"????

Yes, I did, you dirty birdie. Now pass me some of that bitchly cow feed!

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm with you in thinking that most of her demos are torturous. The piano ones are especially whoreanus. There should be a law against abusing instruments like she does. I shall lobby Congress to make the acts of torture she perpetrates on her pianos illegal. We must be decisive and merciless. Help me bring about this course of action before it's too late, Amber!!

Or we can hitch to Phoenix and just bind her fingers together.

I'd like to, but I would be a hypocrite. i like some of the demos. And - I've heard demos where she is not playing the piani, and it still sounds like she is. Notably, the "Blue Lamp talking" demo.
And I've just admitted to liking "Blue Water" and...another one..."I could not love you enough" or something. So that's two demos I like, at least - that may be two to many to tie her fingers together.
I could support a partial ban...

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

Depth is subjective and I can't imagine Lindsey sitting in the studio thinking "My songs aren't deep, they're lightweight. Stevie must add her depth."

You know, this brings up an interesting point. Since all the other songs were so "poppy", why didn't they use one of the older Stevie songs that was more "light" ? She always says all her demos and songs were available to them. I wonder if this time she gave them these four and that was it ? I am assuming that was what happened, but would love to know the truth.
Also, I suppose WTTRS had to have been done last, considering it was this big rehab thing. I wonder if the musical track was done for a different song ? And what of that Book Of Miracles thing ? If this is so, then Joan must have actually been a possibility for inclusion on the record.

So many questions. Where is David ?

This all makes me want a cocktail.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

I'd like to, but I would be a hypocrite. i like some of the demos. And - I've heard demos where she is not playing the piani, and it still sounds like she is. Notably, the "Blue Lamp talking" demo.
And I've just admitted to liking "Blue Water" and...another one..."I could not love you enough" or something.
I could support a partial ban...

I knew you'd wuss out.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of luck finding some Resmuglican lawmakers who would just love to sock it to that Clinton-loving witch.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sparky

You know, this brings up an interesting point. Since all the other songs were so "poppy", why didn't they use one of the older Stevie songs that was more "light" ? She always says all her demos and songs were available to them. I wonder if this time she gave them these four and that was it ? I am assuming that was what happened, but would love to know the truth.
Also, I suppose WTTRS had to have been done last, considering it was this big rehab thing. I wonder if the musical track was done for a different song ? And what of that Book Of Miracles thing ? If this is so, then Joan must have actually been a possibility for inclusion on the record.

So many questions. Where is David ?

This all makes me want a cocktail.

Don't forget that she offered up that masterpiece "What Has Rock and Roll Ever Done For You?"

EVERYTHING!!

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

Don't forget that she offered up that masterpiece "What Has Rock and Roll Ever Done For You?"

EVERYTHING!!

Dammit. I knew I forgot one. She even mentioned that one in interviews and talked it up. I have that and Joan somewhere here on a piece of crap demo cd I bought from someone on ebay. It skips. It always did. I am gonna get it out.

[amber]

Originally Posted by dissention

I knew you'd wuss out.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of luck finding some Resmuglican lawmakers who would just love to sock it to that Clinton-loving witch.

Wuss out!?! I said I'd support a limited ban on crappy demos!
Oh, memo to Diss, I like Stevie. A full scale attack is simply not an option.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

Wuss out!?! I said I'd support a limited ban on crappy demos!
Oh, memo to Diss, I like Stevie. A full scale attack is simply not an option.

You are a hoot.

I am listening to Joan of Arc right now.

"There's a few martyrs in a century
They take a limousine because everything else is taken care of"

Oh, man.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

You are a hoot.

I am listening to Joan of Arc right now.

"There's a few martyrs in a century
They take a limousine because everything else is taken care of"

Oh, man.

WHAT?! WHAT?! Those are the actual words?
oh.my.god.
I'd forgotten the words, just knew I didn't like it.
Martyrs who take Limos? Is she kidding us?
Oh, what a great night.
Thank goodness that was not released. I can't believe she really said that, and even recorded a tune to it.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

WHAT?! WHAT?! Those are the actual words?
oh.my.god.
I'd forgotten the words, just knew I didn't like it.
Martyrs who take Limos? Is she kidding us?
Oh, what a great night.
Thank goodness that was not released. I can't believe she really said that, and even recorded a tune to it.

The next line is

"And they don't even know what they died for"

The killer ? There is a skip in it too. The music and drum programming is kind of cool. And her voice isn't bad. But, OMG. If it didn't have this annoying skip I would try and post it.

It is really bugging me because I thought that "What Has Rock And Roll Ever Done For You" was on this cd too. Damn.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

The next line is

"And they don't even know what they died for"

The killer ? There is a skip in it too. The music and drum programming is kind of cool. And her voice isn't bad. But, OMG. If it didn't have this annoying skip I would try and post it.

It is really bugging me because I thought that "What Has Rock And Roll Ever Done For You" was on this cd too. Damn.

Um. People in limosines aren't martyrs that die for things, unless I have been sadly misinformed.
Wow. That's just stevie freeballing, I mean stream of consciousness writing. And in this case she is no Kerouac.
I have WHRAREDFY if you "need" it.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by amber

Martyrs who take Limos? Is she kidding us?

Um. People in limosines aren't martyrs that die for things, unless I have been sadly misinformed.

It's my personal opinion that Stevie was being cynical (in her characteristically melodramatic way) with these lyrics....

They wanted images, when images were unspoken.
They depended upon illusion... calling the illusion, "gold and glitter."
They came in tired, and they said tired was "the end of the line."

and

Well, there's a few "martyrs" in our century.
They take a limosine, because everything else is taken care of.
And they don't even know what they "died" for....

In her 'Rock A Little' interview with Jim Ladd, Stevie talked about her famous and talented male friends, and how they had very little motivation or ambition, and how it always drove her crazy that they were perfectly happy to just lay around and be waited on, rather than using their time to create more songs. She said that she'd practically have to drag them to their guitar or piano, to get them to write something.

So I feel she was commenting on the general nature of spoiled and pampered rock stars... and I think, from the lyrics, that she knew she was indicting herself in the process.

Of course, the last time I voiced that interpretation, it was thoroughly and resoundly shot down, without so much as a second thought.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It's my personal opinion that Stevie was being cynical (in her characteristically melodramatic way) with these lyrics....

They wanted images, when images were unspoken.
They depended upon illusion... calling the illusion, "gold and glitter."
They came in tired, and they said tired was "the end of the line."

and

Well, there's a few "martyrs" in our century.
They take a limosine, because everything else is taken care of.
And they don't even know what they "died" for....

In her 'Rock A Little' interview with Jim Ladd, Stevie talked about her famous and talented male friends, and how they had very little motivation or ambition, and how it always drove her crazy that they were perfectly happy to just lay around and be waited on, rather than using their time to create more songs. She said that she'd practically have to drag them to their guitar or piano, to get them to write something.

So I feel she was commenting on the general nature of spoiled and pampered rock stars... and I think, from the lyrics, that she knew she was indicting herself in the process.

I will acknowledge it is an almost certainly fruitless waste of time for me to get in a discussion with you about such things and that I will almost certainly regret it - but I think you are assuming a lot with your quotation marks in the lyrics and the assumption that this song was written about that particular subject. You must admit that using a such a loaded historical figure in comparison to rock stars is a bit of a stretch.

Of course, the last time I voiced that interpretation, it was thoroughly and resoundly shot down, without so much as a second thought.

I never heard the theory before, but I can't imagine that during RAL that she was lucid enough to go that far with a historical cross reference. Even if she was, man, it takes a lot of work to justify it. It is convoluted even for her.
I might give more leeway if she shifted perspective and said,

"She came in tired, and they said that tired was the end if the line."

Or "I came in tired."

Who are the two they's ?

It is nonsensical, as I said, even for Stevie.

I posit that she was such a disaster that she couldn't write a cohesive song.
Which is why there is a Sandy Stewart song on a Fleetwood Mac record.

Do I feel for her as a person ? Certainly I do.

It's still bad writing.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by sparky

I will acknowledge it is an almost certainly fruitless waste of time for me to get in a discussion with you about such things and that I will almost certainly regret it -

No worries... I don't have a desire to debate this stuff with you or anyone else anymore. Minds are resolutely made up on all sides with no room allotted for looking at something from a different perspective, so we'd just end up going around and around in increasingly tiresome circles.

Just thought I'd post my interpretation once more, in the off-chance that someone out there might find something of interest in it.