fritz and destiny....

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

I think about half the reason Lindsey left the group in whenever it was ... '87 ... was Mick Fleetwood, who was a total wreck at that point. The Lindsey-Mick friendship had always been very strong, but at that point it must have virtually disintegrated.

Oh, that's right. But Stevie still said Lindsey could absolutely not stand her.
But as far as him leaving, Mick probably had more to do with it. Thanks, Dah-veed.
BTW, just for the record, 24 karat is the worst Stevie demo I've heard next to Amber. And maybe a couple others.

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

Amber, it depends on what time we're talking about. Remember that she did part of her Tango work (writing & recording) before her own tour, so she was stoned. I mean, that's part of the reason that Fleetwood Mac was such a mess at that point. Lindsey said at that point he didn't even recognize her (not literally, of course).

But she did her tour, cleaned up, & came back to do whatever she could cram into those sessions while the rest of the band was still convened -- before the mixing started. In fact, maybe the mixing had already started. It was pretty late in the process: the album was released in the spring, & she rehabbed some time between the end of 1986 & spring 1987.

Oohhh, I thought she was all clean, then. Even high, she seems nicer than Lindsey on his best days. (okay, that's blatent hyperbole, but I think there is a grain of truth there)
But obviously, someone who has moved on, and is not high, does not want to work with a bunch of wacked out cokeheads. Especially if said person is a pot head, which, drug wise, is the antithesis of coke. And if anyone says "oh, Lindsey doesn't smoke!" I will kick their bun.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

Well, I kind of agree about Tango, but not completely. Also, she wasn't falling off of anything at that point, she had gone to rehab.

Frank. Frank. They were working on that record for a over a YEAR. (Come on, we are talking about Lindsey here.) They were working during her RAL tour. She came and laid her vocals down for a few weeks after rehab, and that was it. The rest of the record was basically done.

And I imagine things were done through agents and attorneys for the usual reasons they always are

The way the story has been told is that at that point the inclusion of legal representation and management had risen to a level of ridiculousness previously unseen.

I don't think Linds was coked up at that time.

Okay. I may try and see about that. I think they all were. Though not everyone was at Stevie and Mick's level.

Swill - well, I like them okay, but I see your point. But to me they are no worse than You and I, Part Icky.

OMG. Can you imagine what the demos for WISYA and WTTRS must have sounded like ? Have you heard the vague scrap of an idea that really isn't a complete song that we call Joan of Arc ?

I think his pissed offedness at doing her songs was a result of his bitter jealousy, and not much of an entity unto itself. Like, I'm sure he didn't mind doing her songs nearly as much when they were together, and when she didn't have a fairly rockin' solo career, and when she wasn't a huge media darling.

Number one, it probably helped when she was actually in the room on those previous records !

Dude, at that time, RAL had been trashed by every major critic. Did you see the woman in crisis illustration from the RS review ? Almost every review of her tour said her voice was in tatters and she was destroying herself. She was falling off the stage she was so f*cked up. The media darling trip was long over. She was well on her downslide on that tour.

I don't think you really absorbed what I wrote - either that or you can't imagine having to fix her wretched material. Or what it was like for the band making the record. But that's okay. You still my Shaniquia.

[David]

Originally Posted by sparky

It's true. Mick has admitted he was snorting half of Peru and completely unavailable as well.

For some reason, Mick was imo trying to see how far he could push Lindsey -- Mick was showing up at virtually every show on Stevie's tour out West. This was at a time when "Fleetwood Mac" is presumably trying to record an album (July & August 1986). Mick even shows up onstage for Stevie's appearance at the Toxics benefit at the end of August, & DOES NOT play with Lindsey. Now, you don't have to be intimately familiar with band politics to know what a slap in the face that is. That really sucks.

Lindsey and Christine made the record.

I think that's absolutely true, Spark. If some of those drum tracks on Tango sound artificial or mechanical, it's because they are! When Lindsey talked about having to "fill in" for missing band members, he wasn't just talking about Stevie!

He is talking about everyone in Fleetwood Mac except Chris.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

what in the hell is that supposed to mean Sir?

Surely you jest.

[David]

Originally Posted by amber

Even high, she seems nicer than Lindsey on his best days.

Well, you know me -- I love Stevie high.

In fact, I kinda think I love her only when high (not me, her).

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

Frank. Frank. They were working on that record for a over a YEAR. (Come on, we are talking about Lindsey here.) They were working during her RAL tour. She came and laid her vocals down for a few weeks after rehab, and that was it. The rest of the record was basically done.



The way the story has been told is that at that point the inclusion of legal representation and management had risen to a level of ridiculousness previously unseen.



Okay. I may try and see about that. I think they all were. Though not everyone was at Stevie and Mick's level.



OMG. Can you imagine what the demos for WISYA and WTTRS must have sounded like ? Have you heard the vague scrap of an idea that really isn't a complete song that we call Joan of Arc ?



Number one, it probably helped when she was actually in the room on those previous records !

Dude, at that time, RAL had been trashed by every major critic. Did you see the woman in crisis illustration from the RS review ? Almost every review of her tour said her voice was in tatters and she was destroying herself. She was falling off the stage she was so f*cked up. The media darling trip was long over. She was well on her downslide on that tour.

I don't think you really absorbed what I wrote - either that or you can't imagine having to fix her wretched material. Or what it was like for the band making the record. But that's okay. You still my Shaniquia.

I did absorb, just from a different perspective, the perspective where I know Linds is the kind of person to be a huge ass, and kick her onstage, and imitate her onstage. And also, he's always had to fix her stuff.
I concede all your points here except! - Those songs are not demos???? Sesly, they're all very spare except seven wonders. I have not heard the demos for them, but I imagine they would be very similar.
I addressed Stevie's RAL coke use in my reply to David, where he set my "Stevie Coke Timeline" straight.
Oh, and though she had fallen from media darling, it was....mainly that one album and tour. And I like the album RAL, and critics aren't always right. And she was still...you know...
But point taken.
And Joan of Arc sucks.

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

For some reason, Mick was imo trying to see how far he could push Lindsey -- Mick was showing up at virtually every show on Stevie's tour out West. This was at a time when "Fleetwood Mac" is presumably trying to record an album (July & August 1986). Mick even shows up onstage for Stevie's appearance at the Toxics benefit at the end of August, & DOES NOT play with Lindsey. Now, you don't have to be intimately familiar with band politics to know what a slap in the face that is. That really sucks.
I think that's absolutely true, Spark. If some of those drum tracks on Tango sound artificial or mechanical, it's because they are! When Lindsey talked about having to "fill in" for missing band members, he wasn't just talking about Stevie!

He is talking about everyone in Fleetwood Mac except Chris.

Wow, I didn't know about Mick doing that! hahahaha, figures. But of course! who wouldn't? Plus, Stevie and Mick have always had a "special bond". You know, the bond that comes from sneaking and having an affair right under bandmates/ex boyfriend's nose? While doing mountains of coke? Yes, it all makes sense, now.
Lindsey and Chris may own the record, but my fave song on it is still Seven Wonders. Caroline close behind.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by David

Amber, it depends on what time we're talking about. Remember that she did part of her Tango work (writing & recording) before her own tour, so she was stoned.

You know, I have always wondered about this. The way it is talked about, I always wondered if she really did any recording before the end - or any significant part. The way they talk about having to "piece together" the vocals made me wonder if he just got some demos of her vocals and did some scientific level doctoring of them. Perhaps I have missed an interview or something. God knows Mick's book can't be taken at face value. Is there some interview that talks about her coming in and doing prelim vocal recording ? I never knew for sure.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sparky

You know, I have always wondered about this. The way it is talked about, I always wondered if she really did any recording before the end - or any significant part. The way they talk about having to "piece together" the vocals made me wonder if he just got some demos of her vocals and did some scientific level doctoring of them. Perhaps I have missed an interview or something. God knows Mick's book can't be taken at face value. Is there some interview that talks baout her coming in and doing prelim vocal recording ? I never knew for sure.

Mick's book is as reliable as Judith Miller, but I always got a kick out of that section where Stevie complained about barely being on the record, to which Christine bitched her out and said something like "Whose fault is that?"

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

Plus, Stevie and Mick have always had a "special bond". You know, the bond that comes from sneaking and having an affair right under bandmates/ex boyfriend's nose? While doing mountains of coke? Yes, it all makes sense, now.

That ? Is awesome.

And also, he's always had to fix her stuff.

Lordy, of course he has. I just think this was the weakest, foulest batch he ever had to work with. And under really nasty circumstances.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

You know, I have always wondered about this. The way it is talked about, I always wondered if she really did any recording before the end - or any significant part. The way they talk about having to "piece together" the vocals made me wonder if he just got some demos of her vocals and did some scientific level doctoring of them. Perhaps I have missed an interview or something. God knows Mick's book can't be taken at face value. Is there some interview that talks baout her coming in and doing prelim vocal recording ? I never knew for sure.

I wonder, too, and it is deceptive to me that she did a video, and a whole tour. It makes me think she was more committed then she actually may have been at the time of recording.

[Nicksluvver]

Originally Posted by David

For some reason, Mick was imo trying to see how far he could push Lindsey -- Mick was showing up at virtually every show on Stevie's tour out West. This was at a time when "Fleetwood Mac" is presumably trying to record an album (July & August 1986). Mick even shows up onstage for Stevie's appearance at the Toxics benefit at the end of August, & DOES NOT play with Lindsey. Now, you don't have to be intimately familiar with band politics to know what a slap in the face that is. That really sucks.
I think that's absolutely true, Spark. If some of those drum tracks on Tango sound artificial or mechanical, it's because they are! When Lindsey talked about having to "fill in" for missing band members, he wasn't just talking about Stevie!

He is talking about everyone in Fleetwood Mac except Chris.

I really agree with your post. Mick it seems was the most out of control one in the band, though they all had their love affair with fame and decadence. IMO starting with Tusk, LB really started to hold the reigns of the making of the music and as SN, MF and JM got less involved with the real buisness of making Mac records, (production and such) LB held on even tighter, which began underneath the surface to piss MF off. He knew he was going crazy partying and that LB was really steering The Mac as a leader (musically), yet Mick was not ready at that point to stop and get things back to a "band". I seem to recall Mick saying years after Tango, that it was LB who got that record done, but its been so long, I cannot remember where I heard this. As far as CM and LB IMO from a musical stand point they were a match made in heaven and CM knew it. CM it seems for the most part kept herself present in the making of the records, not just laying down tracks and then splitting. It is almost like Mirage and Tango are the Buckingham/Christine records - LOL. In my Stevies defense she really was juggling 2 careers and a party schedule. LB really helped her songs out at that time, in the studio doing what he could with what she gave him. Do I think LB was on drugs at the Tango time? I thought he was cleaing up his act at that point.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

That ? Is awesome.



Lordy, of course he has. I just think this was the weakest, foulest batch he ever had to work with. And under really nasty circumstances.

It appears we've come to an impasse in our discussion where we totally agree.
I guess I'll just conclude with: Neither one of them hung the goddamned Moon. Perhaps all five of them hung it together. And Chris was the most regular and logical one. And they are all hella lame. Okay, that's it.
Thank you to David for his facts and insight which greatly informed my opinion.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

Mick's book is as reliable as Judith Miller, but I always got a kick out of that section where Stevie complained about barely being on the record, to which Christine bitched her out and said something like "Whose fault is that?"

Christine

Oh, I am sure all it ever took for her to make a point was one, and I mean ONE phrase.